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American 2020 Presidential Primary

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
For those still championing Bernie:

You could also get plenty of attack mileage out of economic proposals Sanders has put out. When he previously ran for governor of Vermont, one of the items in his platform was for the government to seize private businesses and nationalize them without compensation for the stockholders (See Page 7 for reference). He has also previously argued that it should be made illegal for businesses to relocate (Source). Stuff like this probably wouldn't play well with the electorate as a whole.
 

Balerion

Well-known member
As far as I am concerned Bernie should stand aside as should Biden. The question should become who can beat trump?
 

Kylia Quilor

Hopeless Romantic and Nerd
Author
As much as I hate the idea of a Mayor running for President (not the proper order of things damnit!) Buttegig looks pretty damn good so far. But honestly, until we get closer to actual primary season, I'm not going to pay close attention beyond what I see on the late night comedies. I pay attention to primaries in the October before they start, and not before, damnit! This is too early for this shit.
 

IndyFront

Hypershitlord
Author
Looks like a significant number of Democrats really dont give as much of a shit about 'MeToo' anymore:

Story image for BIDEN from The New Republic
Joe Biden's Silent Majority
The New Republic-3 hours ago
A week ago, Joe Biden's presidential campaign looked like it was dead on arrival. Accusations of unwanted touching brought forth by several ...

Half of Democrats say Biden accusations will make no difference in ...
The Hill-5 hours ago

Joe Biden is sorry, not sorry. And that's the problem.
Opinion-Chicago Tribune-21 hours ago

Poll: Democrats unfazed by Joe Biden's handsiness
In-Depth-Politico-7 hours ago

Joe Biden's needless, hurtful lie and other commentary
Opinion-New York Post-19 hours ago

2020 roundup: Biden leads Harris in California
In-Depth-NBCNews.com-30 minutes ago
View all

Honestly, as much as I despise Joe Biden's politics, the accusations against him pale in comparison to Trump's (who, let us be reminded, admitted to ACTUAL SEXUAL ASSAULT ON TAPE)
 

Kylia Quilor

Hopeless Romantic and Nerd
Author
I think people are willing to give him more slack because what he did is so, so much better than some of the more severe stuff. Also, polls are probably unhelpful here - ads haven't run yet, most people aren't paying close attention to these matters and Biden's got name recognition.

Another possibility is that we're so used to seeing Biden as the Gaffe-prone fun Uncle sort of character, whereas Trump was always cast as something of a sleezeball and scumbag, even before he ever ran for President.

Still, giving Biden a pass here is not a good thing - does bad things for Democrats' credibility. Yes, trump was soo, soooo much worse, but it does look hypocritical.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Yes. Uncle Joe (not my favorite Uncle Joe; the other one) is more of the type of "handsy" uncle who is a bit too friendly or still doesn't have a grasp of how some people have far lower tolerances than others. While it gets most people to go "come on, stooop it, Joe" there is a degree of tolerance for the guy who pushes across the line from time to time.

In part we are also seeing in the polls people voting as though it were a forum on what they view as acceptable limits. While Republicans, particularly of the evangelical stripe, have their many issues with women, there are also plenty of other people who have not stepped over to Team Red but still view a lot of these controversies as overblown and exaggerated. It's not "he grabbed my tits and tried to push me into an alcove" but "when he checked my paperwork his hand brushed my shoulder for a moment and now we should shun him as a molester!" that is often getting reported, and a lot of people are at their breaking point as to how the fuck are they supposed to actually interact with other people any more.

Then you add in that the guy actually has a good political history, name recognition, and contacts all across the Team Blue spectrum. Top it off with Trumpie perving on underage girls and admitting to forms of sexual assault, and now people go "Well, if it wasn't enough to stop the election of that piece of shit, why shouldn't I consider someone who is flawed but still a million times better than what we have?".

If it gets the guy who makes Harding look like a real stand-up fellow out of office, people will hold their noses for a while and do what is necessary to win.
 

Kylia Quilor

Hopeless Romantic and Nerd
Author
All very true, but given how the Republicans were able to turn Hillary's emails into a capital offense, we have to be very careful about how we let candidates expose democrats to charges of hypocrisy and making us lose our credibility. If we keep supporting Biden, that'll hurt us even more when we have to deal with the next Kavanaugh or Roy Moore. Because unfortunately, the American people love False equivlancies, and we shouldn't make them easier for them to make.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
All very true, but given how the Republicans were able to turn Hillary's emails into a capital offense, we have to be very careful about how we let candidates expose democrats to charges of hypocrisy and making us lose our credibility. If we keep supporting Biden, that'll hurt us even more when we have to deal with the next Kavanaugh or Roy Moore. Because unfortunately, the American people love False equivlancies, and we shouldn't make them easier for them to make.
Not disagreeing with you. This Joe is not my guy.

Though I think that it is hitting levels of "ah, fuck it" for most people now. The pretenses have been lost, and the voting bloc that insisted that they were all about morality and character and such... voted for the Republican candidate, just like they always have and will, despite the candidate being the complete opposite of what they publicly claimed they wanted.

Which in many ways is better anyway. Make the ability to be voted in a matter of policy and not just throwing out competing tabloid articles. Become the French.
 

Kylia Quilor

Hopeless Romantic and Nerd
Author
What Trump did (and what Biden did) aren't 'Tabloid Articles'.

Having a consensual affair is a tabloid article that shouldn't be an issue. Sexual harassment and assault are serious issues.

Democrat's can't win if we hit 'Ah fuck it'. They'll just not vote if that's what they feel - even if they don't sit home in 2020, they will if it becomes the standard in 2024, 2028, etc
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
All very true, but given how the Republicans were able to turn Hillary's emails into a capital offense, we have to be very careful about how we let candidates expose democrats to charges of hypocrisy and making us lose our credibility. If we keep supporting Biden, that'll hurt us even more when we have to deal with the next Kavanaugh or Roy Moore. Because unfortunately, the American people love False equivlancies, and we shouldn't make them easier for them to make.
Problem is that most Americans don't have the time to be informed of politics. Politics has always been a very time (and money) consuming process even in a democratic republic. Hell, a good portion of them don't even have the time to vote...
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Andrew Yang's manifesto:
  1. Universal basic income of $1,000 for everybody over 18
  2. Medicare for all
  3. Human-centered capitalism (trickle-up economy)
Trump is the symptom, not the problem. His solutions are to turn the clock backward, build the wall and bring old jobs back. I'm suggesting we do the opposite -- accelerate our economy and society and move us forward to solve the problems that got him there in the first place.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Andrew Yang's manifesto:
  1. Universal basic income of $1,000 for everybody over 18
  2. Medicare for all
  3. Human-centered capitalism (trickle-up economy)
... so a variation of Huey Long's Share our Wealth program? He proposed a universal basic income back in the 1930s (alongside caps on inheritance and incomes), and many of his other programs (particularly the infrastructure programs that brought water and electricity to rural Louisiana) were adopted into the New Deal.

Problem is, he got killed for the very idea of Share our Wealth. Assassinated right on the steps of Louisiana's legislative building by his political enemies.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
... so a variation of Huey Long's Share our Wealth program? He proposed a universal basic income back in the 1930s (alongside caps on inheritance and incomes), and many of his other programs (particularly the infrastructure programs that brought water and electricity to rural Louisiana) were adopted into the New Deal.

Problem is, he got killed for the very idea of Share our Wealth. Assassinated right on the steps of Louisiana's legislative building by his political enemies.
I think that Long's plan was much more extreme (cap on income and wealth by using progressive tax with 100% top level). What Yang proposes is business as usual in a significant part of Europe. Except the universal income, but I think there are some experiments with that now, too. Even if he became president and got to really implement it (fat chance), there are still a million more social policies that are commonplace in EU. Our worker protection codes and union codes would seem like pure communism to people in the US.
 

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