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An Epidemic of disbelief Or as I call it no one ever gets to say rape culture isn't a thing again. Please Read the Article.

D'waawwu

Well-known member
Eric Eugene Wilkes was known to Detroit police for robbery and carjacking. Not for rape. Yet Wilkes’s DNA was in boxes scattered throughout the warehouse, even as he walked free. His DNA first arrived there more than 18 years ago, after he raped a woman waiting for a bus on December 26, 2000. It next appeared after another rape four months later. Three days after that, police shelved the untested kit from his third victim.


One can imagine a certain rhythm to the process, as police hoist kit after kit onto the metal shelves, not knowing that they hold in their hands the identity of a serial rapist. Here’s the evidence box from a deaf woman Wilkes assaulted in June 2006. There’s one from a woman he raped in May 2007. The kit from his sixth victim arrived in June 2010. Another a month later. Two more in August 2011. His 10th victim, four months after that. Not until he raped his 11th victim, in January 2012, did the sequence end, because that woman saw Eric Wilkes two days after the assault and called the police, who arrested him. Eleven years, 11 violent rapes—all while Wilkes’s identity was preserved in sealed containers that no one had bothered to open.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Part of the problem is that these things generally become a 'he said/she said' situation, and due to how most police forces tend to be tied into politics -usually city/town level- and the fact that there is quite often more ambiguity to the crime...

... basically having privacy is a net negative in this scenario.
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
Part of the problem is that these things generally become a 'he said/she said' situation, and due to how most police forces tend to be tied into politics -usually city/town level- and the fact that there is quite often more ambiguity to the crime...

... basically having privacy is a net negative in this scenario.
Please read the Article before you star talking about he said she said.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Please read the Article before you star talking about he said she said.
It still goes into why these things happen, many police districts don't investigate because there is too little to gain from it. So you can get this sort of situation.
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
It still goes into why these things happen, many police districts don't investigate because there is too little to gain from it. So you can get this sort of situation.
That's just fucking lazy that's not a he said she said problem. That's a where to fucking lazy problem. The Articles literally about thousands upon thousands of rape kits not being tested. That has nothing to do with he said she said. Did you even read the part I quoted? The First vic got raped while waiting for a bus. Where is the he said she said in that? What she claims he raped her and he claims she wanted a quickie? And the nine others that came after?
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
That's just fucking lazy that's not a he said she said problem. That's a where to fucking lazy problem. The Articles literally about thousands upon thousands of rape kits not being tested. That has nothing to do with he said she said. Did you even read the part I quoted? The First vic got raped while waiting for a bus. Where is the he said she said in that? What she claims he raped her and he claims she wanted a quickie? And the nine others that came after?
That is a part of the problem, not the entire problem. A lot of the rape cases boils down into a 'he said/she said' problem, add on top of the laziness and politics...
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
That is a part of the problem, not the entire problem. A lot of the rape cases boils down into a 'he said/she said' problem, add on top of the laziness and politics...
And how is she said He said relevant at all here? When were talking serial rapist and Rape kits not being Tested? It would be like if I opened a thread about modern day Neo Nazis and you immediately start talking about Stalin.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
And how is she said He said relevant at all here? When were talking serial rapist and Rape kits not being Tested? It would be like if I opened a thread about modern day Neo Nazis and you immediately start talking about Stalin.
Because with the politicization of crime (or, more specifically, the politicization of how police do things), rape gets put on the wayside. With the fact that rape starts out with a 'he says/she says' bit...
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
Because with the politicization of crime (or, more specifically, the politicization of how police do things), rape gets put on the wayside. With the fact that rape starts out with a 'he says/she says' bit...
And If a rape kit is tested
Most rapes, of course, are not committed by strangers. Eighty percent of the time, the rapist is someone a woman knows—they met at a party or a bar; he’s her colleague, friend, mentor, coach. So police saw little reason to send off those rape kits: The man’s identity was never in doubt. But the Cleveland study illuminated another insight—one that shows the tragic consequences of failing to test “acquaintance rape” kits. Historically, investigators had assumed that someone who assaults a stranger by the railroad tracks is nothing like the man who assaults his co-worker or his girlfriend. But it turns out that the space between acquaintance rape and stranger rape is not a wall, but a plaza. When Cleveland investigators uploaded the DNA from the acquaintance-rape kits, they were surprised by how often the results also matched DNA from unsolved stranger rapes. The task force identified dozens of mystery rapists this way.
He said she said is just a lazy excuse and is barely relevant here.
 

CrimsonVizier

On a Break please do not reply.
Police laziness and incompetence are commonplace. This doesn't indicate a "rape culture", it indicates a lazy cop culture
One feeds the other.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Yeah, but they are a tool nevertheless. One that is unused.
Because they aren't magic wands and the police are either beholden to the electorate via the city council/mayor or they have their leadership elected. As long as politics directly influence policing, we're never going to change.
 

CrimsonVizier

On a Break please do not reply.
Because they aren't magic wands and the police are either beholden to the electorate via the city council/mayor or they have their leadership elected. As long as politics directly influence policing, we're never going to change.

And with that I expect a lot more twitter accusastipns to happen then
Because if people feel that the coursts are not going to help them they will find other ways.

The court of public opinion is fickle and regularly backfires but the chance of getting justice is enough for some to take that chance.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
And with that I expect a lot more twitter accusastipns to happen then
Because if people feel that the coursts are not going to help them they will find other ways.

The court of public opinion is fickle and regularly backfires but the chance of getting justice is enough for some to take that chance.
There is an old quote that should be relevant here: "Fiat justitia ruat caelum" or "Let justice be done though the heavens fall". It is that same quote that ended slavery in Britain in the 19th century. Problem is that, oddly enough, there is such a thing as too much democracy... and we've fucking found it. It just took us decades to find it out.

Since our courts are mostly elected these days, alongside -directly or indirectly- the entire law enforcement apparatus, that sort of justice will not fly. Since politics is basically theater...
 

CrimsonVizier

On a Break please do not reply.
There is an old quote that should be relevant here: "Fiat justitia ruat caelum" or "Let justice be done though the heavens fall". It is that same quote that ended slavery in Britain in the 19th century. Problem is that, oddly enough, there is such a thing as too much democracy... and we've fucking found it. It just took us decades to find it out.

Since our courts are mostly elected these days, alongside -directly or indirectly- the entire law enforcement apparatus, that sort of justice will not fly. Since politics is basically theater...
I personally prefer the quotes

"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are"

Mostly because its true until those who have the power to help are as outraged as those being victimized justice will simply be given piecemeal.and never enough to actually do anything.

"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe."

This is a much better quote for it. If you deny them justice do not be surprised if they decide to to play dirty and the COPO is a very very dirty way to play but if it plays out then the hammer shall fall. But with the COPO the hammer always falls it just depends on who is hit.
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
Skyzeta explained in great detail on SB why Rape Kits are far from an I WIN button that progressives would like to believe.
I'm sorry who is talking about an I win button? As Lord Kragan pointed out it's a tool One that's not being used enough because my gut tells me she's lying. As if that's a good enough reason to not to look at evidence. There's no such thing as an I win button but you never win If you don't try.
I personally prefer the quotes

"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are"

Mostly because its true until those who have the power to help are as outraged as those being victimized justice will simply be given piecemeal.and never enough to actually do anything.

"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe."

This is a much better quote for it. If you deny them justice do not be surprised if they decide to to play dirty and the COPO is a very very dirty way to play but if it plays out then the hammer shall fall. But with the COPO the hammer always falls it just depends on who is hit.
You know What I find jarring? I people always go on about if only more people came forward. Tell that to all the people who had rape kits sitting in storage for years. Because someone couldn't be bothered to have it tested cause my gut. You know I think more victims need to find out how many rape kits were shelved before they submitted theirs. I would certainly feel like asking some pointed questions about why If it could have prevented harm to myself and suing the shit out of someone. I would want people fired and heads to roll. Their needs to be more personal accountability. If someone decides to shelve a rape kit and it turns out to have had important evidence they need a very good reason or they need to get fired.
 

CrimsonVizier

On a Break please do not reply.
I'm sorry who is talking about an I win button? As Lord Kragan pointed out it's a tool One that's not being used enough because my gut tells me she's lying. As if that's a good enough reason to not to look at evidence. There's no such thing as an I win button but you never win If you don't try.

You know What I find jarring? I people always go on about if only more people came forward. Tell that to all the people who had rape kits sitting in storage for years. Because someone couldn't be bothered to have it tested cause my gut. You know I think more victims need to find out how many rape kits were shelved before they submitted theirs. I would certainly feel like asking some pointed questions about why If it could have prevented harm to myself and suing the shit out of someone. I would want people fired and heads to roll. Their needs to be more personal accountability. If someone decides to shelve a rape kit and it turns out to have had important evidence they need a very good reason or they need to get fired.
People who ask why more dont come forward rarely understand what its like to be raped by soemone who has power over you and how little you can do.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
Throughout the poorly-written angry article (yeah, just throw out "likely" and "probably" a lot to make every person in the system look like they are being actively malicious) I also notice the fact that is being ignored. Someone found out and flipped their shit, so now there is a massive push to deal with the problem. Would be nice for some people to at least acknowledge that there are people who are working to fix the problem instead of just turning on all those people for all that happened in the past.
 

D'waawwu

Well-known member
Throughout the poorly-written angry article (yeah, just throw out "likely" and "probably" a lot to make every person in the system look like they are being actively malicious) I also notice the fact that is being ignored. Someone found out and flipped their shit, so now there is a massive push to deal with the problem. Would be nice for some people to at least acknowledge that there are people who are working to fix the problem instead of just turning on all those people for all that happened in the past.
What makes you think that's being ignored? That's kind of the problem. You say the past.
the metal shelves, not knowing that they hold in their hands the identity of a serial rapist. Here’s the evidence box from a deaf woman Wilkes assaulted in June 2006. There’s one from a woman he raped in May 2007. The kit from his sixth victim arrived in June 2010. Another a month later. Two more in August 2011. His 10th victim, four months after that. Not until he raped his 11th victim, in January 2012, did the sequence end, because that woman saw Eric Wilkes two days after the assault and called the police, who arrested him. Eleven years, 11 violent rapes—all while Wilkes’s identity was preserved in sealed containers that no one had bothered to open.
 

Tithed_Verse

What's bugging you?
Author
the fact that the police are terrible and we'd do better as a nation to fire many police districts, forcibly disband their union, and start over from scratch... I mean, fuck martial law might be better right now in certain jurisdictions, China certainly managed with long term martial law...

I don't see how that's a sexism problem alone when it's so much more systematic, problematical, and causes deaths every day. There are people who get away with murder, or get convicted of murder, because of a lack of DNA testing.

Nuke the police force (in most jurisdictions) and start over clean. That's my opinion. Anything less is a failure.

Though Minneapolis just banned 'warrior' style training when off duty! hooray!
 
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IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author
I don't see why the fact that the police are terrible and we'd do better as a nation to fire many police districts, forcibly disband their union, and start over from scratch... I mean, fuck martial law might be better right now in certain jurisdictions
Wait...
Nuke the police force (in most jurisdictions) and start over clean. That's my opinion. Anything less is a failure.
What? Dude, pick one and stick with it. Nobody's going to take you seriously if you seem like all of your views are based on how you feel from one second to the next. I can understand varying a slight bit from day to day... but going from one polar opposite to the next in the same POST? Lolwhut...
I don't see how that's a sexism problem alone when it's so much more systematic, problematical, and causes deaths every day.
Dear Christ on a Bike, what is with you hot take bipolar centrists and your straw people, false-dichotomies and logical fallacies writ large galore? Did anyone ever tell you? humans don't see the world in black and white by default, and trying to do that with anything - especially politics - is going to present you with a horrendously-skewed perception of reality itself? Apparently not..
Though Minneapolis just banned 'warrior' style training when off duty! hooray!
The simple fact that it is JUST NOW HAPPENING is fucking pathetic, not a cause for celebreation...
 

V4Guss

Well-known member
Author
Police laziness and incompetence are commonplace. This doesn't indicate a "rape culture", it indicates a lazy cop culture
I'm going to have to agree with Alcibiades. This seems less "rape culture" and more like much of the legal system and law enforcement being too incompetent, corrupt, and/or lazy to get their jobs done properly. This kind of thing is nothing new. I'd argue it's been around in some form ever since there's been legal and law enforcement systems in place.
 
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Tithed_Verse

What's bugging you?
Author
What? Dude, pick one and stick with it. Nobody's going to take you seriously if you seem like all of your views are based on how you feel from one second to the next.
I don't see the contradiction between firing civilian officers and using the military to temporarily make due while you restart fro. Scratch.

Maybe you don't understand what martial law is? It's using the military temporarily as a police force. It certainly should be a reasonable part of any plan to nuke the police force and restart from scratch.

Oh I see, you're talking about my 'I don't see why'. That's an artifact of a rewrite. Sorry. I missed it when I was writing.
 

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