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Can a conventional war apocalypse happen?

Kamakura bakufu

Active member
Everyone knows about the danger of total nuclear war when countries cease to exist but can similar effects happen when no one decided to use nukes and how it will happen?
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Easy. Conventional strikes on logistical nodes, power supply, critical infrastructures, done en masse and on enough countries at once, to the point noone can produce enough fuel, generate power, build parts, grow or distribute enough food. The cities become warzones with no more food for their inhabitants, no power, no medicine and no outside support, while societies in general become unable to restart because they lack half a dozen technical steps between what is still available and what is needed to support as many people as they have.

This is also how it's done with nukes, by the way. City-killing strikes are more of an afterthought.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
"Infrastructure doesn't take prisoners."
Exactly. This is why I consider stuff like Russia very long range conventional cruise missiles as strategic weapons barely below nuclear ones. Would they launch dozens of them at our critical infrastructure during a war, our only conceivable answer would be nuclear. Same if it was the US being targeted, or Russia by US' cruise missiles. Covid gave everyone a nice and unironcally very gentle reminder of the fragility of our societies and their logistics when we had time to organize ourselves and cooperate in face of the mess. A war would be... different.
 

Scottty

Active member
Expecting nations with nukes to refrain from using them in such a scenario makes little sense. If a country is put in a position where they are going to be wiped out in a conventional war, those missiles are coming flying out of their silos and bringing the BOOM to the opfor.
Otherwise, what's the point of having them?

This is why I consider stuff like Russia very long range conventional cruise missiles as strategic weapons barely below nuclear ones. Would they launch dozens of them at our critical infrastructure during a war, our only conceivable answer would be nuclear.
This.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Russia by US' cruise missiles
This is actually official position of RF on mass strikes by US cruise missiles: it's a strategic threat which will be met with a strategic (nuclear) response. Has been since the bombing of Serbia, and it was the reason why the Russian military invested into developing the Kalibr system plus all the ships to carry it.

Then there's chemical and biological weapons.
Those are not considered conventional weapons but rather WMD.

If a country is put in a position where they are going to be wiped out in a conventional war
Or bankrupted and economically destroyed in an economic war... escalation is always a thing, if there's something to escalate with.
 

<Reaper>666

Well-known member
This is actually official position of RF on mass strikes by US cruise missiles: it's a strategic threat which will be met with a strategic (nuclear) response. Has been since the bombing of Serbia, and it was the reason why the Russian military invested into developing the Kalibr system plus all the ships to carry it.
Since 2010 emphasis is placed upon conventional PGMs across whole spectrum and it is growing. Nukes are ultimate threat but their use makes retaliation mandatory and it immidiately escalates from there, and no one is reaching their objective. WMDs are last resort which even in extreme situation are actually less likely to be used unless we deal with real threat of extermination.
Plus let's take into account rapdid proliferation of ABM and air defence systems together with relative decline of nuclear arsenals (as apposite to the peak in Cold War). Relaying solely on nuclear deterrence is impossible nowadays.
 
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