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Eastern Europe News

Wakko

Well-known member
I have no idea if this will catalyze them to do something about their country, or will they just wallow in whatever.
The current elite class in Ukraine is incapable of doing something selfless, or at least strategically correct for the country, a complete replacement is necessary to move Ukraine in the right direction. And a change of the neo-feudal system that's been in place since Kuchma.
 

Rubick

Well-known member
Should have happened earlier. And frankly this is even advantages to Germany and France. Economically they can compensate in one way or the other and get some more leverage and muscle out Mericans.

 

<Reaper>666

Member
Right now red by anger I'd say. Full text of the US capitulation to NS-2 (really no other way to name it) has been published. There are exactly no guarantees for Ukraine, except repeating of what was already promised/planned before. OTOH everybody promised to intensify work on implementing Minsk 2:

Ukraine is already demanding talks with Germany and Brussels. Well, once again champaigne will be a deficit article in Moscow :ROFLMAO: Oh, I mean sparkling wine... :)
1627048721513.png
Muahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!
Not a chance ;)
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Should have happened earlier. And frankly this is even advantages to Germany and France. Economically they can compensate in one way or the other and get some more leverage and muscle out Mericans.
Shifting traffic from Klaipeda/Riga/Ventspils to Ust Luga, St Peterburg, Vyborg and Primorsk has been going on for some 10 years I think. It started well before 2014 and the primary reason wasn't politics - at least not on the Russian side. The ports started to get small, and the Baltic states kept blocking Russian investment into their enlargement. Of course, after 2014 the game became very different, with import substitution becoming the buzzword of the decade (and well done there, it was time) also in the service sector. I hope that as the Russian ports will get more and more capacity, Baltic transport will be just a small niche of the Russian export routes. And since Belarus is also after last August moving its export to Russian ports (oil and oil products for now, but it's very likely that fertilizers will follow as soon as Russia can give a competitive price), the Baltics can in a couple years become completely cut off and kind of a blind corner on the map of Europe.

OTOH your undisputable successes in export infrastructure buildup (not just in the Baltics) mean that your producers can choose between domestic and foreign markets, and the inflation that is going up all over EU, US and basically everywhere is raising also your domestic prices.

I love this one:

you_underestimate_the_power_of.jpg
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Nice sparkling wine bottle.
That's actually what's written there - Soviet Demi-sec Sparkling Wine. The 'Shampanskoye' (Champaigne) craziness is something completely new and quite unexpected :)
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Isn't there a champagne war going on between Russia and France?
The war is over, Rospotrebnadzor won, the French importer agreed to name its fine Champagne-originated wine 'sparkling wine' so it won't impugn the good name of true Russian 'shampanskoye' :D
It's crazy, it looks to me like the Russians are intentionally trolling the French, or they hoped to clear the market of real French Champaigne... I don't think I really get what it was all about.
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
The war is over, Rospotrebnadzor won, the French importer agreed to name its fine Champagne-originated wine 'sparkling wine' so it won't impugn the good name of true Russian 'shampanskoye' :D
It's crazy, it looks to me like the Russians are intentionally trolling the French, or they hoped to clear the market of real French Champaigne... I don't think I really get what it was all about.
WTF. If this was the 19th century, Napoleon might invaded Moscow for this. 😂
 

Wakko

Well-known member
WTF. If this was the 19th century, Napoleon might invaded Moscow for this. 😂
An elegant response, for a more... civilized age :D

The Ukrainian responses to the US-BRD agreement regulating RU-UA gas and gas transit trade (I named it thus because I love the absurdity of it all) is starting to get attention of some serious analytic minds in Ukraine. Ruslan Bortnik just made a video about it, and he says basically what I wrote before - it's a waste of paper. He just added that it's not even a deal or an agreement, it's a joint statement which is a bit less than a memorandum. And Ukraine loves memorandums... They have to be thrilled by getting a Joint Statement.
To make the humiliation more obvious, Ze has finally gotten an invitation to the White House - for August 30. When a) the NS-2 will be most likely complete and b) the Congress will be on vacation, so he won't even be able to stir some unrest there.
Below is the current state of NS-2 line A construction (line B is already complete). Top right is Fortuna, moving west at about 0.6 nm per day. Bottom left is Akademik Chersky, moving east at maybe half the speed (but speeds vary a bit). It's 16.2 nm between them, so most likely they will meet in the second week of August. Then another week or two to do the last joint. Bar something unexpected, by the time Ze arrives in Washington, the whole pipeline should be in the testing stage.

Btw, Bortnik has inside knowledge from Ze's inner circle, and in a recent interview he said that Ze's group is working in a state of constant political shock, moving from one hopeless attempt to another (like the recent and already cancelled pivot to China), trying to somehow deal with a situation that cannot be dealt with. Not just relating to NS-2, but the whole political situation in Ukraine, and the outside pressures which now firmly push it towards Minsk 2, the Steinmeyer Formula, Donbass autonomy etc.

ns2-20210723.jpg
 
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Vorpal

Administrator
Administrator
Isn't there a champagne war going on between Russia and France?
What this looks like is that Moët had an opportunity to get a whole bunch of free advertisement in a country in which ads on alcohol are verboten: by intentionally releasing a canard misrepresenting a new law and making a fuss of stopping exports to Russia, they got every their name on headlines everywhere. Or possibly they just can't read. Their label change seems involve putting ‘sparkling wine’ on the back labels of their products sold in Russia—not front labels. Also, technically the law doesn't seem to require even that much.

The basic law seems to be some sort of attempt at compromise of French demands and local producers, involving a change of classification from the old ‘sparkling wine (champagne)’ to ‘sparkling wine, including Russian champagne’. Nobody requires French to remove ‘champagne’ from their labels; that's just absurd. And they won't; again, all Moët did is put some blurb on the back label. However, what the Russians want is not completely cave to French demand of forcing local producers from avoiding the word completely, because this is an old term to which consumers are used thus, and thus removing which would simply cede most of the market to the French. The local producers want the term ‘Russian champagne’ to be reserved for sparkling wines made from wineyeards in Russia.

Article:
[ref] Indeed, after categorical words about the suspension of supplies, Moet Hennessy reduced the degree of the problem a few days later. They said that they have always complied with local laws in the countries where they supplied their products. And in this case, the company will do the same. Namely, the French will start adding the mention of "sparkling wine" to the label on the back of champagne bottles to comply with amendments to Russian law. How long it will take to replace labels, champagne producers did not say. By such an indirect statement, the French, in fact, hint at their mistake, although they do not admit it directly. The fact is that the name "champagne" on the bottle is indicated on the front label, but the French are not going to change it.

The expert believes that Moet Hennessy is simply ashamed to admit its mistake. Moreover, according to him, whether or not to write “sparkling wine” on the counter-label is the prerogative of the company itself, it is not at all necessary to do so. What suppliers of sparkling wine to Russia are obliged to do is to certify their products as required by the Russian law on winemaking. However, the amendments adopted on July 2, 2021 are not about that. “The Europeans had to certify their products in accordance with Russian laws yesterday. But they haven’t done it yet, ”says Popovich. That is, the customs calmly allowed imported sparkling wine without this certification.
Source: Vzglyad

The government is forcing imports to conform to mandated quality standards. When will Russian tyrannical absurdities end?

Someone should remind Russia of Grand Fenwick's tale.
Le Figaro's claims on this law are garbage, and so were Moët's. And so are BBC's, and those of a whole multitude of Russian sources too.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
What this looks like is that Moët had an opportunity to get a whole bunch of free advertisement in a country in which ads on alcohol are verboten: by intentionally releasing a canard misrepresenting a new law and making a fuss of stopping exports to Russia, they got every their name on headlines everywhere. Or possibly they just can't read. Their label change seems involve putting ‘sparkling wine’ on the back labels of their products sold in Russia—not front labels. Also, technically the law doesn't seem to require even that much.

The basic law seems to be some sort of attempt at compromise of French demands and local producers, involving a change of classification from the old ‘sparkling wine (champagne)’ to ‘sparkling wine, including Russian champagne’. Nobody requires French to remove ‘champagne’ from their labels; that's just absurd. And they won't; again, all Moët did is put some blurb on the back label. However, what the Russians want is not completely cave to French demand of forcing local producers from avoiding the word completely, because this is an old term to which consumers are used thus, and thus removing which would simply cede most of the market to the French. The local producers want the term ‘Russian champagne’ to be reserved for sparkling wines made from wineyeards in Russia.

Article:
[ref] Indeed, after categorical words about the suspension of supplies, Moet Hennessy reduced the degree of the problem a few days later. They said that they have always complied with local laws in the countries where they supplied their products. And in this case, the company will do the same. Namely, the French will start adding the mention of "sparkling wine" to the label on the back of champagne bottles to comply with amendments to Russian law. How long it will take to replace labels, champagne producers did not say. By such an indirect statement, the French, in fact, hint at their mistake, although they do not admit it directly. The fact is that the name "champagne" on the bottle is indicated on the front label, but the French are not going to change it.

The expert believes that Moet Hennessy is simply ashamed to admit its mistake. Moreover, according to him, whether or not to write “sparkling wine” on the counter-label is the prerogative of the company itself, it is not at all necessary to do so. What suppliers of sparkling wine to Russia are obliged to do is to certify their products as required by the Russian law on winemaking. However, the amendments adopted on July 2, 2021 are not about that. “The Europeans had to certify their products in accordance with Russian laws yesterday. But they haven’t done it yet, ”says Popovich. That is, the customs calmly allowed imported sparkling wine without this certification.
Source: Vzglyad

The government is forcing imports to conform to mandated quality standards. When will Russian tyrannical absurdities end?


Le Figaro's claims on this law are garbage, and so were Moët's. And so are BBC's, and those of a whole multitude of Russian sources too.
It's not a French demand, it's the whole concept of protected appelations for culinary products, which is very well enforced in many trade agreements for stuff from various countries, European and non-European. Which is why even if Russia wanna have the label for their producers, they still won't be able to sell it as champagne in most of the planet, just as "Russian sparkling wine".
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
An elegant response, for a more... civilized age :D

The Ukrainian responses to the US-BRD agreement regulating RU-UA gas and gas transit trade (I named it thus because I love the absurdity of it all) is starting to get attention of some serious analytic minds in Ukraine. Ruslan Bortnik just made a video about it, and he says basically what I wrote before - it's a waste of paper. He just added that it's not even a deal or an agreement, it's a joint statement which is a bit less than a memorandum. And Ukraine loves memorandums... They have to be thrilled by getting a Joint Statement.
To make the humiliation more obvious, Ze has finally gotten an invitation to the White House - for August 30. When a) the NS-2 will be most likely complete and b) the Congress will be on vacation, so he won't even be able to stir some unrest there.
Below is the current state of NS-2 line A construction (line B is already complete). Top right is Fortuna, moving west at about 0.6 nm per day. Bottom left is Akademik Chersky, moving east at maybe half the speed (but speeds vary a bit). It's 16.2 nm between them, so most likely they will meet in the second week of August. Then another week or two to do the last joint. Bar something unexpected, by the time Ze arrives in Washington, the whole pipeline should be in the testing stage.

Btw, Bortnik has inside knowledge from Ze's inner circle, and in a recent interview he said that Ze's group is working in a state of constant political shock, moving from one hopeless attempt to another (like the recent and already cancelled pivot to China), trying to somehow deal with a situation that cannot be dealt with. Not just relating to NS-2, but the whole political situation in Ukraine, and the outside pressures which now firmly push it towards Minsk 2, the Steinmeyer Formula, Donbass autonomy etc.

View attachment 3488
Wait, the 'pivot' to China is dead in the water already? The ink has barely dried yet!
 

Vorpal

Administrator
Administrator
It's not a French demand, it's the whole concept of protected appelations for culinary products, which is very well enforced in many trade agreements for stuff from various countries, European and non-European. Which is why even if Russia wanna have the label for their producers, they still won't be able to sell it as champagne in most of the planet, just as "Russian sparkling wine".
Yes? They don't particularly insist on selling it as ‘Russian champagne’ in the rest of the planet, though. What they want is to regulate the internal market in a way that does not completely remove the word ‘шампанское’ from their products sold inside Russia, even if it's with a qualifier. Because this is the word that Russian consumers are have been used to, and so removing it would immediately collapse their domestic market share. Almost all of the rest of the planet don't have Russian as native language, so there is just about nothing to lose by not calling it that outside Russia. And they don't AFAIK.

Sorry, but you're doing a bit of strange bait-and-switch of people not wanting to cede their domestic market share as some sort of aggression on the rest of the planet. This is absurd because the regulation of Russian market it almost tautologically not about the rest of the planet.

At the end of the day...
— Moët can still label their products ‘champagne’ or ‘шампанское’ or whatever they feel like. Completely contrary to their earlier claims, nobody is treading on the French right to call their sparkling wines that. It's not unlikely they plain lied to get lots of free publicity and increase their sales.
— Russian sparkling wine producers can still label their products ‘российское шампанское’ in the domestic market, as long as they're actually based on stuff grown in Russia and produced in a certain way (e.g. not by the Charmat method?).
— Nothing here has to do how Russian sparkling wine is labeled outside Russia. Presumably, this is handled by various treaties.
— There is no substantive change for Moët; all they did is put some blurb on the back label that their products complies with regulations.
Everything else seems to be pure BS, for media both inside and outside Russia. It's totally normal for food imports to be pass certification and require labels to acknowledge it, which is the sum total of imposition Moët actually suffered. Literally nothing else changed for French products sold in Russia—thjey were de facto already compliant; all they had to do is say so.

In reality, this amendment creates some new restrictions on Russian producers from slapping ‘Russian champagne’ on their sparkling wines. In other words, some producers that sold ‘российское шампанское’ would have to buy from Russian wineyards and produce their wine using only a certain method. But apparently, because government only put restrictions on ‘российское шампанское’ rather completely legislating out of existence (as the French would have preferred), a whole bunch of people are losing their minds.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Wait, the 'pivot' to China is dead in the water already? The ink has barely dried yet!
Yep, there were already some retractions and apologies. Not sure if from the same people (I haven't seen Arestovich backtracking yet, but the guy's sheer arrogance and self-delusion may be too strong for that), but they were from Ze's group.
As Bortnik said, it's pure chaos fueled by fear and shock.
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
Yep, there were already some retractions and apologies. Not sure if from the same people (I haven't seen Arestovich backtracking yet, but the guy's sheer arrogance and self-delusion may be too strong for that), but they were from Ze's group.
As Bortnik said, it's pure chaos fueled by fear and shock.
I suppose most of this stuff is in Ukrainian not in the news...

But seriously this dumbasses really don't know which arse to lick do they?
 

Wakko

Well-known member
I suppose most of this stuff is in Ukrainian not in the news...

But seriously this dumbasses really don't know which arse to lick do they?
Well, they're desperate. Biden didn't prioritize Ukraine in his foreign dealings, Ze had to wait months for a phone call (that's April 2nd 2021, while Putin talked to Biden on January 25th). Then after the Geneva meeting it became clear that Ukraine will be used as currency to pay for concessions from Russia and Germany. And exactly that happened with the US-German NS-2 deal. To add insult to injury, Ukraine has been (politely, I hope) asked to shut up about NS-2 already. I think it's just human that Ze's people lash out in frustration, even though it's not politically wise.

I think more 'interesting times' are to come. You see, Ukraine is a political Afghanistan in the middle of Europe. You can try to control it, but no matter what you do, you cannot keep hold on it for too long. Everybody who ever tried it found out the hard way*. That is because its socio-political topography is just as complex as is Afghanistan's actual topography. The name Ukraine stems from the word 'Okraina' meaning border land. It's a place where ethnicities and cultures meet and try to find some status quo. This status quo is constantly being challenged from outside the country, leading to frequent political unrest. IMO the gas transit infrastructure has been a curse for Ukraine, it has produced sooo much corruption and outside interference that no matter what they get for the transit, it's not worth it. Ukrainians are good people, smart, hard-working, modest and flexible, they could build a good life if they weren't a constant battlefield of interests of much stronger neighbors.


* Just an example: in the attempts to control Ukrainian nationalism, Russia in the 1920's ceded to it large part of its European territory - much of eastern and southern Ukraine are Russian speaking and historically Russian-settled lands. Then in 1956 it was given Crimea, the most beautiful, rich and important piece of the whole USSR. Then in 1968 the WP invasion of Czechoslovakia was to a large extent motivated by the fear of Ukrainian commie party that Czechoslovak democratization will embolden Ukrainian nationalism. Finally in 1990 Ukraine's national political elites seriously helped in the dissolution of the USSR - and took with it all that it was given during USSR, including some 20 million Russians. And that's just the last 100 years, the grief that Ukraine and its hetmans gave the Russian czars is legendary...
 
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Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
Yeah... they sided with the Swedes at the Battle of Poltava and we know how that went. They also gave the Poles some grief when well, the Poles stupidly disenfrancised them of their land... the enmity between the Poles and Ukrainians is kind of legendary.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
the enmity between the Poles and Ukrainians is kind of legendary.
Only dwarfed by their common enmity towards Russians... we Slavs surely know how to have fun... centuries and centuries of fun... :rolleyes:
 

Vorpal

Administrator
Administrator
So, my translation would be: the language is ambiguous because otherwise people would see what bullshit it is. But should Russia try to stop gas flow to Europe, Germany will help it from the other side. Who needs gas anyway...Zelensky won't be happy :)
It is indeed boilerplate traditional barking, but there's also a pretty interesting interpretation from Martsinkevich that the US may be much more interested in keeping gas prices in the European market low even through the impending closing of Groningen next year, in order to prop up the US trade balance with China, which is where American-produced LNG is going. With BACI (Austria-Czhechia) and other interconnectors, you could have plenty of NS2 gas even without Ukraine; appropriately, Czhechia-Bellingcat making a fuss about Russia is distracting from their own participation in pipeline extensions of NS2. ... If that's the case, then while the usual declarations like the recent US+Germany one are contentless noise as usual, the contrary interpretation of US capitulation would be similarly be, at best, greatly exaggerated.

The end result may be is that all sides are getting something of what they want, but have to publicly dress it up in the usual cliches anyway. (Well, not Ukraine, but Ukraine more of a bargaining chip than rather than a side.)
 

Wakko

Well-known member
It is indeed boilerplate traditional barking, but there's also a pretty interesting interpretation from Martsinkevich that the US may be much more interested in keeping gas prices in the European market low even through the impending closing of Groningen next year, in order to prop up the US trade balance with China, which is where American-produced LNG is going. With BACI (Austria-Czhechia) and other interconnectors, you could have plenty of NS2 gas even without Ukraine; appropriately, Czhechia-Bellingcat making a fuss about Russia is distracting from their own participation in pipeline extensions of NS2. ... If that's the case, then while the usual declarations like the recent US+Germany one are contentless noise as usual, the contrary interpretation of US capitulation would be similarly be, at best, greatly exaggerated.

The end result may be is that all sides are getting something of what they want, but have to publicly dress it up in the usual cliches anyway. (Well, not Ukraine, but Ukraine more of a bargaining chip than rather than a side.)
Martsinkevich is the best in energy sector analysis, but IMO his political interpretations may be lacking a bit. I agree that my 'US capitulation' formulation was exaggerated - but not that much. Rather it's US leaving European affairs to Europeans, in exchange for loyalty vis-a-vis China (i.e. not ratifying the Christmas trade agreement). In the context of the usual US' geopolitical arrogance, losing influence on one set of affairs (Central and Eastern Europe) to keep influence elsewhere (EU-China relations) is unusually real-politik.
Bellingcat isn't a US tool, it's British tool, and the Brits are also losing big from NS-2, so I think their shenanigans are not just for show. Not only is the Washington memorandum basically making Germany the master of European affairs when it comes to the US, NS-2 deepening economic collaboration between the two strongest European countries is completely contrary to the traditional British political method of dealing with continental threats.
I like the theory about US intentionally fixing gas prices so that all its LNG keeps going to China (though I don't understand why they would care about the trade balance, it's too slow a process to help with their current short-term inflation troubles; unless they're not so short-term... hm...). If this theory gets some traction here in EU, I look forward to see how some people will sweat trying to explain how the US is still going to save us from dependence on Russian gas :D
Meanwhile the distance between Fortuna and Cherskiy has closed to 14 nm...
 

Vorpal

Administrator
Administrator
... NS-2 deepening economic collaboration between the two strongest European countries is completely contrary to the traditional British political method of dealing with continental threats.
Yuh, all this ultimately leaves the UK as a irrelevant in deciding anything in Eastern Europe. So much for their dreams a global power unshackled from the EU...

I like the theory about US intentionally fixing gas prices so that all its LNG keeps going to China (though I don't understand why they would care about the trade balance, it's too slow a process to help with their current short-term inflation troubles; unless they're not so short-term... hm...).
Maybe I'm just plain wrong on this, but I've a hard time believing that anyone that matters actually believes this story of energy-dependency non-delivery extortion threat. It's something neither the Soviet Union nor Russia ever attempted, and which has standard contractually outlined penalties anyway. It's not at all clear to me what Russia is imagined to do here. Moreover, the underlying logic is also contrary to the ‘when don't cross borders, armies will’ logic that is a foundational idea to formation of the EU.

I suppose my bias is that I want to believe in energetic/economic explanations because they try make a modicum of sense, whereas the official rhetoric on all sides seems to me to be some kind of incoherent slap-fight... But maybe the world really is dumb or I just can't grok it.

If this theory gets some traction here in EU, I look forward to see how some people will sweat trying to explain how the US is still going to save us from dependence on Russian gas :D
I'm pretty sure I saw an article to the effect that that the completion of NS2 would be a geopolitical loss for Russia because it makes it dependent on European dictates.
There's no telling what kind of pretzels can be twisted out of the situation if need be.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
I suppose my bias is that I want to believe in energetic/economic explanations because they try make a modicum of sense, whereas the official rhetoric on all sides seems to me to be some kind of incoherent slap-fight... But maybe the world really is dumb or I just can't grok it.
Oh you have no idea. For rational people it can be really difficult to believe that people who behave irrationally do so honestly, we usually see in it some falsehood - think that they are not stupid but somehow cunning, and lie about their convictions. But OMG in reality they're soooo stupid and irrational and simply completely ideologically lobotomized... but at least they're honest :)

I'm pretty sure I saw an article to the effect that that the completion of NS2 would be a geopolitical loss for Russia because it makes it dependent on European dictates.
Yeah, we'll see tons and tons of dumb s**t written and told, before this crisis of rationality in Europe is over. In fact, NS-2 is a victory for Russia that is difficult to overestimate. Even discounting the simple fact that Russia prevailed against the pressure of the US in an economic project with the EU, something that should be impossible.

First of all, it gives Russia a surplus of gas export capacity. The 3rd energy package makes it impossible for Poland and Ukraine (which, not being a EU member, has nonetheless subscribed to EU's gas market rules in the association agreement) to block Gazprom from their regular transport capacity auctions, so Gazprom will be able to choose which route to use for everything that doesn't fit into NS + NS-2 + TS .

Second, it gives Russia and Germany a direct link for their most significant trade article, making them into a kind of separate economic unit, independent from the EU and Central and Eastern Europe gas transit countries. Now it will be Germany, a new European gas hub, who will be able to use its dominant position on the gas market.

Thirdly, having surplus transport capacity, regulated by the 3rd energy package, Russia will be able to influence prices of gas in Europe. Just as they're high right now because Russia didn't buy additional capacity from Ukraine and Poland, they can be lowered quickly if it will be necessary to cut the market off US or other LNG. And winter is coming... Unless Gazprom takes pity on us and steps on the gas (so to speak), gas prices in Europe will go a lot higher yet (and so will gas prices in Ukraine, which in its infinite wisdom buys gas at TTF prices + transport fees). I'd really like to see how will the EU try to dictate terms to Gazprom when gas prices will be at double the current 390 EUR per 1000 m3 (if my calculations are correct). Well, I better not see it, as I'm also paying for it.

And finally, NS-2 is the ultimate weapon against Ukraine, and Ukrainian ruling elites are right to despair. Even without violating the current gas transit agreement, Russia can massacre Ukrainian energy market simply by not sending gas through its pipeline while continuing to pay - that is fine as the agreement goes. Without the pressure created by the transiting gas, the pipeline, which is used also for domestic gas distribution, will be unable to work. So will be unable to work the virtual reverse scheme. Real reverse of gas from Slovakia to Ukraine will a) be much more expensive and b) require technical changes to both Slovak and Ukrainian pipelines. Ukraine would then have no choice but to try and buy gas directly from Russia. And it's not even 'using energy as a wepon' if the Urengoy-Pomary pipeline will suddenly require a major, multi-month maintenance...
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
Well. It's a give and take on a level. Western Europe wants its gas and doesn't want to contend with the occasional bouts of insecurity from its Eastern and Baltic countries who seem more adept at ranting about Russia than anything else, and then you have Poland who bites the hand that feeds them like no tomorrow. Putin does not want to give up economic and political connections with Europe, although he is hedging his bets on his eastern front nowadays. NS2 guarantees that there will be economic links, no matter what Poland and the Baltics would say, who, like the US, would just love to cut off Russia from the rest of Europe.

Give or take? Yeah, the pipeline is a fiat accompli. I suppose at least Merkel gets to give Poland and the Baltics the middle finger after how they torpedoed Macron's and her proposal to open dialogue with Russia. As for the UK, they are just salty that nothing they have done for the past decades have successfully disunited Europe.
 
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