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Eastern Europe News

folti

Well-known member
The funny? thing is that I remember years ago in the SB Ukrainian Civil War thread ridiculing the Ukrainian Army making these exact same mistakes which led to several disasters as the seperatist artillery slaughtered them.

Ironically enough the seperatist militias are by far the best units of the Russian invasion while their supposedly proffesional counterparts donned their clown shoes.
Time flies, people change, organizations may or may not be able to adapt to new developments.

In this case, the Ukrainian military and security services put in the effort to fix their issues, while the other side's capabilities have been either degraded due to sanctions, or have been slowly moved out to say support the mission in Syria, and someone forgot to get them back for the big show in time.

And of course a bit of a corruption issue, with not enough emphasis on fixing the unsexy backend like getting enough modern radios (like yeah you can't parade them on the red square like the Armatas.


On the hacking front, I expect the usual thing happened. The people who were good with the stuff realized that they could earn more by going into ransomware, or go white hat and work for some big company, especially is the budget crunch after the 2014 sanctions meant that state employees' pay didn't follow inflation.
 

Paulo Brito

Well-known member
Author
Rufus, I'm curious - what is the French doctrine on SEAD? AFAIK the Rafale (and the Mirage 2000) don't carry anti-radiation missiles. On top of that, I don't remember any anti-radiation missile made by the French.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Rufus, I'm curious - what is the French doctrine on SEAD? AFAIK the Rafale (and the Mirage 2000) don't carry anti-radiation missiles. On top of that, I don't remember any anti-radiation missile made by the French.
We did have some dedicated anti-rad missiles, specifically the AS-37 Martel, but ceased development, production and use of such systems since then (Mirage III era, so a long time ago). From my understanding of things, the doctrine about air defences is both above and below the anti-rad missile, AKA with cruise missile strikes and individual plane survivability. Strategic points in the enemy air defence network can be hit with ship/sub/plane launched cruise missiles, but beyond this, air defence elements will be treated like any other target or danger, to be avoided, or soft/hard killed.

Before Day 1: ELINT work is done with satellites, submarines and planes (Transall Gabriel dedicated EW plane plus Rafale's own SPECTRA suite);
Day 1: a dozen cruise missiles are launched to the really critical nodes, if needed (optional, as seen in Libya where we didn't even care to do it);
After Day 1: strike packages do their job
- Constant evaluation of the threat area by all planes;
- Low-level high-speed flying if it is required to enter a zone that cannot be neutralized first;
- Neutralization of the threat either with soft-kill measures (SPECTRA suite doing the jamming and spoofing, proven to work at the very least on S-300, making them unable to properly track and target the plane) or hard-kill with PGM (the regular PGM in service for the Rafale and Mirage 2000 is a rocket-powered bomb with ranges reaching 50-70 km for high-altitude launch or 10 km for a low-altitude launch done, for example, behind a hill to mask the plane).
 

Paulo Brito

Well-known member
Author
You are talking about using AASM instead of HARM/Alarm.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
You are talking about using AASM instead of HARM/Alarm.
Yep. Not as fast, long-ranged or effective, but the strike doctrine doesn't call for utter annihilation of the enemy AD before hitting the target, something made very possible thanks to the self-protection capability of the planes.
 
Please Stay Civil

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
OKAY. I WILL MENTION THIS JUST SO THIS THREAD DOESN'T SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL, BUT PLEASE DON'T DELIBERATELY MENTION USERS IN THE THREAD UNLESS THEY ARE ACTIVELY RESPONDING TO THE POSTS YOU'VE MADE. WE CAN ALL DISAGREE ON THINGS, BUT PLEASE DON'T HARASS ANYONE PEOPLE.
 
Don’t be a Doomer

Alias

Moderator
Moderator
Hey y’all. It’s your local bunny moderator and following up on Jak post, the staff been talking about this for a while and we’d ask the thread to avoid any nuclear doomerism. Talking about the possibility of nuclear warfare, how a no fly zone could risk it etc is fine. So just don’t be a doomer. Otherwise carry on debating fellow popsicles.
 

Avernus

Well-known member

Well, that's not good.

Imagine invading a country, and relying on local collaborators running easily detectable and unreliable SIM masking services so you can communicate with each over Ukrainian mobile networks...
I believe it came up earlier that they do have a more sophisticated, secure system...that relies on the part of the communication infrastructure they blew up. Oops.

It certainly fits the entire "the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing" pattern we've seen from the Russians in this absurdity.
 

Eliar

Well-known member

Well, that's not good.

I believe it came up earlier that they do have a more sophisticated, secure system...that relies on the part of the communication infrastructure they blew up. Oops.

It certainly fits the entire "the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing" pattern we've seen from the Russians in this absurdity.


Eh it was bound to happen and it is only partially because of any Anti West Terror or to crush dissent.

Putin must have had a stroke when he realized just how utterly rotten his created establishent was from top to bottom and must be preparing legally to clean house.

Or clean house as much as his support will allow.

He will need ALOT of scapegoats and with Russia's economy crushing and burning he will have to give up at least a few of the generals and other assorted rats that turned all Russian modern military kit in to villa's yachts and swiss bank accounts/
 

folti

Well-known member
I believe it came up earlier that they do have a more sophisticated, secure system...that relies on the part of the communication infrastructure they blew up. Oops.

It certainly fits the entire "the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing" pattern we've seen from the Russians in this absurdity.
That's their secure smartphone named Era. What I could gather that it's effectively your custom built company smartphone, because your boss doesn't trust Apple and Samsung to not leave backdoors in their phones to the NSA and co. Which is not a bad idea, but of course the implementation's details are rather questionable. And of course it's still just a smartphone, which only works if you have a working 3/4G network that lets you in with your Russian sim card...
 

Eliar

Well-known member
After 20 hours of talks, will Macron-Putin dialogue deliver?

"
AFP 15/03/2022:

"Did we detect a willingness to put an end to the war? The response is no."

The Moscow talks in February and the subsequent calls -- averaging one every three days lately -- have made clear to Macron he is dealing with a different man to the one he last met in 2019, before Covid 19 upended the world.

"What he found at the Kremlin was a Putin who was more rigid and isolated, who has lapsed into a sort of ideological and security-first way of thinking," a French official said afterwards.

The 69-year-old Russian regularly submits Macron to lengthy historical lectures about what he perceives as disrespect from NATO and the West -- which he described recently as an "empire of lies".

Although Putin "sometimes shows signs of impatience", the picture that emerges of the conversations is one in which both men contradict each other, politely but firmly, amid long pauses for translations.

When pressed over civilian casualties, Putin issues point-blank denials.

"I have a very simple conviction: if we don't talk to Russia, do we increase our ability to create peace? No. And to whom do we leave this job? To others," Macron explained.



And here we thought that Putin's long therapy sessions with Macron was a figure of speech and not a Real Life example of Analyze This
 

Arius

Well-known member
Canada is being snarky.


FAKE! They didn't apologize. 🙃

It's hilarious but also shows how little knowledge of the inner workings of the UN the Russians have. They argue that the GA cannot intervene in matters related to peace and security. That is not true. At all. The UNSC is the primary body, not the only one.



(...)
Conscious that failure of the Security Council to discharge its responsibilities on behalf of all the Member States, particularly those responsibilities referred to in the two preceding paragraphs, does not relieve Member States of their obligations or the United Nations of its responsibility under the Charter to maintain international peace and security,

Recognizing in particular that such failure does not deprive the General Assembly of its rights or relieve it of its responsibilities under the Charter in regard to the maintenance of international peace and security,

(...)

1. Resolves that if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately with a view to making appropriate recommendations to Members for collective measures, including in the case of a breach of the peace or act of aggression the use of armed force when necessary, to maintain or restore international peace and security. If not in session at the time, the General Assembly may meet in emergency special session within twenty-four hours of the request therefor. Such emergency special session shall be called if requested by the Security Council on the vote of any seven members, or by a majority of the Members of the United Nations;

The crucial element of resolution 377 A (V) is the affirmation that the General Assembly may, if deemed appropriate by it, recommend collective action, including the use of force.
 

IndyFront

Ξ⌊:Ξ≪⊕ `∧∀⊥∥'⌊: ∀∃∃∀⌊:⊕⌈≪⌊:⊕Γ.
Author

Arius

Well-known member
Pathethic. And they would get their ass kicked anyway. Russia showed to the rest of the world they're not among the wolves, so they should stop trying to look stronkk while we're wrecking their entire economy. :rolleyes:
 

folti

Well-known member
Teleporting Russians is a go. Given how the BiH, Serbia, Kosovo blob is surrounded by NATO countries on all sides.

And speaking of Kosovo:

-----

Unrelated, another case of unforeseen consequences of sanctions:

 

IndyFront

Ξ⌊:Ξ≪⊕ `∧∀⊥∥'⌊: ∀∃∃∀⌊:⊕⌈≪⌊:⊕Γ.
Author
Pathethic. And they would get their ass kicked anyway. Russia showed to the rest of the world they're not among the wolves, so they should stop trying to look stronkk while we're wrecking their entire economy. :rolleyes:
Teleporting Russians is a go. Given how the BiH, Serbia, Kosovo blob is surrounded by NATO countries on all sides.

And speaking of Kosovo:

-----

Unrelated, another case of unforeseen consequences of sanctions:

I really want what this guy is smoking
 

Aetherius

Well-known member

Avernus

Well-known member
If thats truly the case, Russia can still revert to the classical method, aka. Pen and Paper.
Yeah, but that's kind of like saying they can revert to candles and non-perishable foods if they run out of electricity; technically true, but still crippling. Especially since if you read that article a huge amount of the demand is for various security efforts against "terrorists"; cutting the feet off his attempt to establish a hi-tech surveillance state is certainly not a good thing from Putin's point of view.
 

Aetherius

Well-known member
Yeah, but that's kind of like saying they can revert to candles and non-perishable foods if they run out of electricity; technically true, but still crippling. Especially since if you read that article a huge amount of the demand is for various security efforts against "terrorists"; cutting the feet off his attempt to establish a hi-tech surveillance state is certainly not a good thing from Putin's point of view.

Correct me please if i´m wrong, but before opening to the west, Russia or in this case the Soviet Union had their own computer systems including Data Storage systems.
I´ve found a very interesting article about that some time ago....

Taking aside my cynical comment, i wouldn´t be surprised if russia will try to revitalise that systems...

Edit:

Here is something a bit heartwarming.
 
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t-dugong

Beach bum, Esq.


Again? Goddamm, our commando were raised on stories moonlighting as Serbian asskickers (rescuing the F117 pilot who got shot down).

They'll be willing to go for round 2, I'll tell you that much.
 
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Aetherius

Well-known member
Teleporting Russians is a go. Given how the BiH, Serbia, Kosovo blob is surrounded by NATO countries on all sides.

I wonder, how do they want to reach those nations...
They cannot go by land or air because this would cause a reaction by nato, so if they not invented a Teleporter then this is just hot air.
Hmm, how likely is it that they gonna fire from their own territory to reach those nations ???
 

Avernus

Well-known member
Russian "diplomacy" has rapidly degenerated into not much more than making progressively more blatant threats at everyone in sight even as their ability to carry them out looks less and less believable. I think their "reasoning process" was just a spinal reflex "Bosnia And Herzegovina want to join NATO? Threaten to attack them!"

Details like "how" didn't come into consideration.
 
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