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Eastern Europe News

Avernus

Well-known member
ROFL mate, he plans like Batman on ADHD. He's well known for making half measures, after ignoring something for too long.
Well, that does tend to come as a package deal with isolating yourself save for a small circle of yes-men like Putin has. When everyone around you tells you how everything is going great and how your policies are working fine, you tend to not see problems until they get so bad they can't get away with lying anymore, and greatly overestimate the effectiveness of your actions.

No modern Russian or Soviet leader needed to, wanted to, or actually could "bug out". They either died in office (Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko), deposed more or less peacefully, and practically exiled (Khrushchev, Gorbachev), lost control due to illness(Lenin), simply forced to retire (Yeltsin), or actually killed in a coup (Beria). Of course, previous incarnations of SU/Russia still had some kind of order of succession, so there were at least someone moderately competent to take over if the current leader died or incapacitated. Something Putin simply eliminated to secure his position, to prevent anyone successfully challenging him, like what happened with Yeltsin.

As for running away to exile, the big question as usually is, running away to where? Who's powerful enough, to bother to go through all the trouble for you, for no reason? Putin literally made too many and too powerful enemies to slink away to some friendly regimes, which will shield him. Starting with the question of "friendly regimes" because he doesn't exactly have any thanks to his international antics.
I've seen the argument that modern dictators in general are more likely to just hang onto power to the last and go down fighting, because "rob the treasury and retire in obscurity somewhere" isn't really an option anymore. Fleeing to a strong nation just means your stolen wealth gets confiscated and if you're lucky you end up a puppet; and if it isn't strong you'll probably end up arrested or killed.

It's bad everything, not just intel. This level of suckage is Iraqi-tier.
It turns out that "tell me what I want to hear or you get disappeared by the secret police" tends to result in really bad intel. Who would have guessed?
 

Eliar

Well-known member
I've seen the argument that modern dictators in general are more likely to just hang onto power to the last and go down fighting, because "rob the treasury and retire in obscurity somewhere" isn't really an option anymore. Fleeing to a strong nation just means your stolen wealth gets confiscated and if you're lucky you end up a puppet; and if it isn't strong you'll probably end up arrested or killed.

Well it is true?

It happened in several cases in Africa and some can argue it happened with Milosevic and Gaddafi as well. The former recieving sanctuary promises that were violated once some time passed and they had no power and the later being allegedly given promises they would be allowed back in the international community only to end up in front of an international court and killed respectively.

I will not argue on the morality of throwing human shaped monsters in to jail till they rot after you promised amnesty and sanctuary but when you do you ensure that the rest of the monsters WILL go down fighting if they go down at all.

I can't help but wonder if Assad for example would have taken a sanctuary deal if offered back at the beginning of the Syrian civil war.
 

folti

Well-known member
Well it is true?

It happened in several cases in Africa and some can argue it happened with Milosevic and Gaddafi as well. The former recieving sanctuary promises that were violated once some time passed and they had no power and the later being allegedly given promises they would be allowed back in the international community only to end up in front of an international court and killed respectively.

I will not argue on the morality of throwing human shaped monsters in to jail till they rot after you promised amnesty and sanctuary but when you do you ensure that the rest of the monsters WILL go down fighting if they go down at all.

I can't help but wonder if Assad for example would have taken a sanctuary deal if offered back at the beginning of the Syrian civil war.
Gadhaffy didn't get an international court. He was surrounded and executed by a rebel group during the first Libyan civil war.

I've seen the argument that modern dictators in general are more likely to just hang onto power to the last and go down fighting, because "rob the treasury and retire in obscurity somewhere" isn't really an option anymore. Fleeing to a strong nation just means your stolen wealth gets confiscated and if you're lucky you end up a puppet; and if it isn't strong you'll probably end up arrested or killed.
That sounds like a selection bias, as dictators who slink away to some friendly country tend to live out their life in peace, batting some extreme events, but it's not as flashy and memorable as them having a last stand guns blazing during a bloody coup.

Of course the big question is whether they actually have se friendly regimes they can to run to, or not. Gadhaffy and Saddam for example had no one to run to, due to their international antics. Assad might be in the same boat, at least he'd have a hard time to run to Iran, and in his case, the rebels quickly went to a bit of a genocidal rage regarding his alawite brethren and their druze and christian allies.

But there are a bunch of former dictators, who simply slinked away to some foreign country, especially if they weren't important enough to sanction their hosts too much. Idi Amin of Uganda lived peacefully on Saudi Arabia, same with Ben Ali of Tunisia. Or Siad Barre of Somalia, who died in Nigeria, or Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia who's still alive on Zimbabwe.

And their hosts might have a change of heart, or a change of government too, with the new guys might not honor the old ones' promises.
 

Kamakura bakufu

Well-known member
Gadhaffy didn't get an international court. He was surrounded and executed by a rebel group during the first Libyan civil war.


That sounds like a selection bias, as dictators who slink away to some friendly country tend to live out their life in peace, batting some extreme events, but it's not as flashy and memorable as them having a last stand guns blazing during a bloody coup.

Of course the big question is whether they actually have se friendly regimes they can to run to, or not. Gadhaffy and Saddam for example had no one to run to, due to their international antics. Assad might be in the same boat, at least he'd have a hard time to run to Iran, and in his case, the rebels quickly went to a bit of a genocidal rage regarding his alawite brethren and their druze and christian allies.

But there are a bunch of former dictators, who simply slinked away to some foreign country, especially if they weren't important enough to sanction their hosts too much. Idi Amin of Uganda lived peacefully on Saudi Arabia, same with Ben Ali of Tunisia. Or Siad Barre of Somalia, who died in Nigeria, or Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia who's still alive on Zimbabwe.

And their hosts might have a change of heart, or a change of government too, with the new guys might not honor the old ones' promises.
Mengitsu is even more evil than Gaddafi but no one know about him.
 

folti

Well-known member
Mengitsu is even more evil than Gaddafi but no one know about him.
Yeah, but he have been out of the news for 30+ years, and didn't exactly do anything outside of causing mass famine at home and losing a civil war. That's pretty lame stuff.

Apparently the Ukrainians launched an attack on attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters in Sevastopol with a small weaponized commercial drone, and the only defense response was small arms fire.






Gotta love the sound of small arms. Looks like they were caught so pants down, they could only bring out the AKs.

The official Russian explanation is hilarious too:



 

Aetherius

Well-known member
Wait a sec...
Isn´t Alexander Dugin the dude who came up with this weird plan for russian world Domination ??
IIRC, he is some kind of nutjob. This kind who gets a lot of love from the russian right-wing ??
I wonder how the russian Muppets will spin it this time...
 

IndyFront

Ξ⌊:Ξ≪⊕ `∧∀⊥∥'⌊: ∀∃∃∀⌊:⊕⌈≪⌊:⊕Γ.
Author
Wait a sec...
Isn´t Alexander Dugin the dude who came up with this weird plan for russian world Domination ??
IIRC, he is some kind of nutjob. This kind who gets a lot of love from the russian right-wing ??
I wonder how the russian Muppets will spin it this time...
He's a Eurasianist aka Russian ultranationalist, the dyde honestly scares me more than Putin tbh
 

Mr Wumbo

Well-known member
Author
HOI4 weirdos who idolizes him and tries to get him or his ideologies into mods on suicide watch.
 

Arius

Well-known member
Wait a sec...
Isn´t Alexander Dugin the dude who came up with this weird plan for russian world Domination ??
IIRC, he is some kind of nutjob. This kind who gets a lot of love from the russian right-wing ??
I wonder how the russian Muppets will spin it this time...
Yeah and killing his daughter will make him even resentful and nuttier than he already is.

I don't know if his daughter shared his views but if she didn't... I'm not really confortable with unwanted targets being killed (it's one thing to target someone who clearly wanted Ukraine to be fully under Russian thumb and allegedly has Putin's hears).

But boy they make sure the Russians puppets know that they're not as safe as they think.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Yeah and killing his daughter will make him even resentful and nuttier than he already is.

I don't know if his daughter shared his views but if she didn't... I'm not really confortable with unwanted targets being killed (it's one thing to target someone who clearly wanted Ukraine to be fully under Russian thumb and allegedly has Putin's hears).

But boy they make sure the Russians puppets know that they're not as safe as they think.
Oh, she did share his views and was vocal about the need to 'remove Ukraine', but she wasn't killed, she had a safety accident while smoking in her car.
 

folti

Well-known member
Also another theory floated on SV, is that this attack might have nothing to do with their purported influence over Putin and any related power struggles, but more about a sudden lack of money to grift from the state or related backers, due to economic reasons.

And with them pandering to the kind of crowd that views violence as a legit tool to attain their goals, it was just the question of time when the knives came out.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Also another theory floated on SV, is that this attack might have nothing to do with their purported influence over Putin and any related power struggles, but more about a sudden lack of money to grift from the state or related backers, due to economic reasons.

And with them pandering to the kind of crowd that views violence as a legit tool to attain their goals, it was just the question of time when the knives came out.
Remember that this might be entirely fake and never happened. After all, according to our Soviet supporters here, the mass executions and rapes of civilians in occupied Ukraine by Red Army troops never happened, so how can we be sure this explosion happened at all?

Also, how dare you pretend there is criminality in USSR, comrade? As @Alcibiades clearly demonstrated many times before, Moscow is a much better and safer place to live than any crime-riddled Westoid city.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
I do not understand why you Westoids are linking this to the very special operation. She was obviously smoking in her car and a perfectly normal accident tragically happened.

I predict that in some Western cities there will be high-profile people dying in totally accidental car explosions soon. Just saying.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I predict that in some Western cities there will be high-profile people dying in totally accidental car explosions soon. Just saying.
Yes, and we also got nuked after the last seventy-six final warnings too. Also, we're down to cannibalism in Europe according to the Soviet media.

In the real world, if they tried to bomb a car in Europe, the only reason they wouldn't discover the hard way that we have become extremely competent at hunting down terrorist cells is because they'd have blown themselves up already with their shining holistic competence. AQ was annoying, ISIS hurt us, IRA knew how to plant bombs, ETA was infamous and the Corsicans still blow up those who don't pay the protection racket.

FSB makes everyone laugh.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Yes, and we also got nuked after the last seventy-six final warnings too. Also, we're down to cannibalism in Europe according to the Soviet media.

(Shrug)
alwayshasbeen.jpg

"Under Scientific Socialism, " said the Soviet lecturer, "Siberia, once a desolate frozen wasteland, is now a Worker's Paradise. Every day we are making progress towards a better future. And yet there are people who say we are not as good as the United States! As America, where children are starving and old people are scrabbling in trash bins for scraps of food! Comrades, those are treasonous thoughts! People have been sent to Siberia for less!"
"Please sir, why send those troublemakers to happy Siberia? Why not send them to the United States instead?"



In the real world, if they tried to bomb a car in Europe, the only reason they wouldn't discover the hard way that we have become extremely competent at hunting down terrorist cells is because they'd have blown themselves up already with their shining holistic competence. AQ was annoying, ISIS hurt us, IRA knew how to plant bombs, ETA was infamous and the Corsicans still blow up those who don't pay the protection racket.

FSB makes everyone laugh.

We'll see. Did they ever catch the people who killed that guy with Polonium?
Interesting topic though. I might start a thread on the relative ability of various historical bomb-planting type people and invite you to contribute to the discussion.
 
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