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Eastern Europe News

Eliar

Well-known member
So Putin declared partial mobilization with a nominal goal of 300000 troops and some say with a secret goal of 1 million troops.

The actual ability of Russia to raise abd equip so many troops aside there is a rather interesting tidbit in the whole shitshow.

The mobilization video was recorded right after Putin was publically clowned and humiliated by the Stan leaders and his nominal allies.

I guess after being surrounded by cronies and yesmen for so long that was a very rude wake up call for Dear Leader
 

crueldwarf

Well-known member
Well, Rufus, if you want so much for me to participate in this thread I can accommodate for a bit.

Firstly, the list is most likely fake.
Secondly, I'm way down the line on the declared criteria for the mobilization, too old to be grunt, not enough useful skills to be specialist and we already have way too much officers who have no clue about what they are doing, so there is no way for me to land on a cushy side of things.
Thirdly, I has been across the river already even if in a strictly civilian fashion. Probably will go again soon enough if my wife gets herself volunteered again.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
Well, Rufus, if you want so much for me to participate in this thread I can accommodate for a bit.

Firstly, the list is most likely fake.
Secondly, I'm way down the line on the declared criteria for the mobilization, too old to be grunt, not enough useful skills to be specialist and we already have way too much officers who have no clue about what they are doing, so there is no way for me to land on a cushy side of things.
Thirdly, I has been across the river already even if in a strictly civilian fashion. Probably will go again soon enough if my wife gets herself volunteered again.

How is it like man?

Seriously I mean.

From the complete and utter clusterfuck the handling of the war has been so far, to the cleptocrats struggling and hollowing out what should have been the 2nd most powerful army in the world, to the praetorians having been proven to be gutless cowards...

I mean I get the My Country Right Or Wrong mentality but how the fuck havent the Ukrainian expeditionary forces simply marched to Moscow and hang Putin and Shoigu by their own entrails?
 

crueldwarf

Well-known member
How is it like man?

Seriously I mean.
No one knows. Literally. Not on our side. Not on their side. And especially not here. No one have a flying idea of what is actually going on because "everybody lies" then lies some more and more with every passing day.
I expect a few years more of this.
I mean I get the My Country Right Or Wrong mentality but how the fuck havent the Ukrainian expeditionary forces simply marched to Moscow and hang Putin and Shoigu by their own entrails?
Simple answer because they can't. And will not be able to until they get actual Americans to fight for them. But then nukes will fly and the point would become moot.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
My pet theory is that most of the newly raised armies will be *shaken out* by being marched down to *sort out* and loot the fuck out of the -Stans and then marched to Ukraine come spring.

Putin declared mobilization right after he was taken to task by Modi and clowned by the Stan leaders.



I mean the mobilization decree was filmed RIGHT AFTER this.

I refuse to believe anything else but bruised ego played a role.
 

Arius

Well-known member
Firstly, the list is most likely fake.
I haven't seen any reliable information suggesting that it is. Although some people made interesting arguments, there's nothing backing that up as of now.




Secondly, I'm way down the line on the declared criteria for the mobilization, too old to be grunt, not enough useful skills to be specialist and we already have way too much officers who have no clue about what they are doing, so there is no way for me to land on a cushy side of things.
I don't think your government cares about any of that. Sorry to be blunt but every "volunteer" in this war are nothing more than pawns. It's no different for the people facing mobilization. Or the ones who will follow soon enough. Because I'm certain Putin won't stop at a "partial mobilization", he'll get as many Russian citizens killed as possible as long as it allows him to maintain dominance over Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

And Russian society is paying the cost of Putin's imperialism and needless war.

The only advice I can give you is this one: get out of there while you still can. Take your family and leave. Don't talk to anybody about it.
 

crueldwarf

Well-known member
I haven't seen any reliable information suggesting that it is. Although some people made interesting arguments, there's nothing backing that up as of now.
The list is literally bits and pieces of bailiff's database that was leaked back in 2020. Selection of the relevant age range males was made and this thing was compiled.

I don't think your government cares about any of that. Sorry to be blunt but every "volunteer" in this war are nothing more than pawns.
Of course they don't. But I'm reasonably secure on that part and have no intentions to entrust myself to the tender cares of our ministry of defense. I did and will continue to do my part through other channels as a civilian.

The only advice I can give you is this one: get out of there while you still can. Take your family and leave. Don't talk to anybody about it.
Not going to happen. It would be literally treason for my better half and we don't do that shit.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
The list is literally bits and pieces of bailiff's database that was leaked back in 2020. Selection of the relevant age range males was made and this thing was compiled.


Of course they don't. But I'm reasonably secure on that part and have no intentions to entrust myself to the tender cares of our ministry of defense. I did and will continue to do my part through other channels as a civilian.


Not going to happen. It would be literally treason for my better half and we don't do that shit.

Then keep your head down and watch out for IEDs and drones I guess.

Hope you and your wife survive this madness in one piece.

Hell actually publishing that you were and will likely be again part of the civilian administration in occupied Ukraine is probably VERY bad for your health.
 
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crueldwarf

Well-known member
Well then, you gotta hope Putin acknowledges the loss before too many Russians get slaughtered via HIMARS and CAESAR.
Well, it was as I expected a trolling attempt. Not interested. It is hard enough to filter bullshit out that my government spews out. Adding foreign government's bullshit to that is simply unhealthy. Bye.
 

Arius

Well-known member
I did and will continue to do my part through other channels as a civilian.
I don't know what's worse. Being blind to one's government's actions or supporting it despite what it really is doing.

There's no honor neither duty to support a government fighting an illegitimate war. Nor is it to die for it.

Your life, your wife's life are meaningless to them. And if treason is the path towards doing your real duty, which is to the people, then so be it.

But supporting your government's actions in this illegal war? It's no different than a soldier drafted in WWII German army or a civilian in occupied territory.

But I guess we have another good example of how docile Russians are. If treason was the price of freedom, I'd take it. I'd rather fight a corrupt government and be considered a traitor for the chance to be free than live as nothing less than...a drone, a tool for my government.

My life has more value than that. And luckily I live in a place where citizens aren't sent to their death for petty politics and imperialism.
 

crueldwarf

Well-known member
But I guess we have another good example of how docile Russians are. If treason was the price of freedom, I'd take it. I'd rather fight a corrupt government and be considered a traitor for the chance to be free than live as nothing less than...a drone, a tool for my government.

Your life, your wife's life are meaningless to them. And if treason is the path towards doing your real duty, which is to the people, then so be it.

It is simply because most of you guys have no idea what it actually means to fight a government. You think that 'chanting in the street' or 'standing with a sign' is 'fighting a government', but it isn't. You say that we need to take our freedom? Last time Russian people took their freedom we built the Soviet Union. Human cost of that was much worse than whatever is going on now both in absolute terms and in relative ones. So I would be very careful about some wishes in your place.

If Russian people would suddenly decide to voice their opinion it would be something very unpleasant.
 

Arius

Well-known member
It is simply because most of you guys have no idea what it actually means to fight a government
You do realize that Belgium, France, Italy... were literally born out of protests and rebellions against our governments?

Luckily, today this is no longer needed but it would happen again if the government were to cross the line. Europeans aren't docile by nature. And we oppose our governments every day for even the slightest illegal act.

As a lawyer, I'm one among many custodians of the rule of law. As such I have a sacred — sworn — obligation to protect the Constitution and our laws, and thus to oppose the government when its actions are illegal and I do so daily through pacific dispute settlements and checks and balances. My real duty is to the people, not the Prime Minister or whatever.


But the entire reason I can do that pacifically is because people, long before I was born, had to take up arms to defend and fight for these values enshrined in our Constitution. And I would be legally obliged to do it if it were necessary.


So no, I don't believe in the cyclical return to dictatorship even though the last time ended up with the creation of the USSR. On the contrary, I believe that Russians deserve the right to live under a democratic regime, learn from past experiences and do better.

The future is what we make of it. And it only takes a few people of good will to change it for the better. Hell the EU is born from such people. Our entire history is filled with the names and sacrifices of such people. So, yes, no matter how hard or unpleasant it is, I believe that you guys deserve a shot at democracy and freedom in order to avoid meaningless endeavours such as the one we're contemplating.


The Ukrainians, the Georgians, Croats, Slovaks,... They all understood that. It's high time you guys wake up.
 
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crueldwarf

Well-known member
You do realize that Belgium, France, Italy... were literally born out of protests and rebellions against our governments?
Ancient history at that point. I'm literally one generation removed from people who built the Soviet Union. I had direct interactions with them. And then I lived through a reverse process of what they lived through. It was also unpleasant.
So no, I don't believe in the cyclical return to dictatorship even though the last time ended up with the creation of the USSR. On the contrary, I believe that Russians deserve the right to live under a democratic regime, learn from past experiences and do better.
Again. people's memory is very short apparently. Russia had a democracy for two years between 1991 and 1993. Infant democracy, but still. This democracy was smothered in the cradle under the general applaud of all the people who are now calling Russians to topple our government. Why? Because Russian democracy had too much of reddish-brown tint for you people to accept. Why do you think that you would like Russian democracy more now than you liked it 29 years ago? Anniversary of the event is not far off.

Do you think all these fuckers who fled the country and now talk about how we need special passports to distinguish 'decent Russian people' from filthy orcs would lead this hypothetical Russian democracy? Nah, they will be hanging over the nearest lamp posts the moment they would try to pull it. You would need to park NATO armor on the Red Square to install them to power. Russian democracy is not former bureaucrats or oligarchs who were pushed out of power and now prostitute themselves for the highest bidder in the Western media. Russian democracy was fighting in Donbass for 8 years and continues to do so now in spite of how appallingly bad Kremlin was handling this war.

Russian people had a lot of admiration towards the West and democracy. But you kinda failed at leading by the example in the years following the fall of the Soviet Union. Now it is very hard to sell to Russian people anything that comes either from Brussels or especially from Washington. There is no trust here, no one really believes in the good intentions anymore and the showings of past few months only reinforced that.
 

Kamakura bakufu

Well-known member
Ancient history at that point. I'm literally one generation removed from people who built the Soviet Union. I had direct interactions with them. And then I lived through a reverse process of what they lived through. It was also unpleasant.

Again. people's memory is very short apparently. Russia had a democracy for two years between 1991 and 1993. Infant democracy, but still. This democracy was smothered in the cradle under the general applaud of all the people who are now calling Russians to topple our government. Why? Because Russian democracy had too much of reddish-brown tint for you people to accept. Why do you think that you would like Russian democracy more now than you liked it 29 years ago? Anniversary of the event is not far off.

Do you think all these fuckers who fled the country and now talk about how we need special passports to distinguish 'decent Russian people' from filthy orcs would lead this hypothetical Russian democracy? Nah, they will be hanging over the nearest lamp posts the moment they would try to pull it. You would need to park NATO armor on the Red Square to install them to power. Russian democracy is not former bureaucrats or oligarchs who were pushed out of power and now prostitute themselves for the highest bidder in the Western media. Russian democracy was fighting in Donbass for 8 years and continues to do so now in spite of how appallingly bad Kremlin was handling this war.

Russian people had a lot of admiration towards the West and democracy. But you kinda failed at leading by the example in the years following the fall of the Soviet Union. Now it is very hard to sell to Russian people anything that comes either from Brussels or especially from Washington. There is no trust here, no one really believes in the good intentions anymore and the showings of past few months only reinforced that.
Then Russians will see how much good fighting the west bring them then.
 

Arius

Well-known member
Ancient history at that point
Ooohhh boy, no.

If you really believe that, let me tell you that you got it all wrong.


Russia had a democracy for two years between 1991 and 1993. Infant democracy, but still.
And we didn't support it at the time. That was our mistake.

A mistake we didn't commit in Ukraine. Although, still infant they've made progress and will do so in the decades needed to become members of the EU.


Because Russian democracy had too much of reddish-brown tint for you people to accept. Why do you think that you would like Russian democracy more now than you liked it 29 years ago? Anniversary of the event is not far off.
Tell me. What has this reddish-brown tint brought you?

It hasn't brought you a wealthy economy or living standards. Or a rich array of opinions and ideas. It hasn't brought you peace, your people are dying in stupid wars (Georgia, Ukraine...).

However this tint has brought you the dislike of so many neighbors for your government's usual imperialistic view of the world and bullying.

Well, up to now. Now they see Russia for what it is actually: a weak State being vassalized by China. You're pretty much North Korea bis.


Do you think all these fuckers who fled the country and now talk about how we need special passports to distinguish 'decent Russian people' from filthy orcs would lead this hypothetical Russian democracy?
Fuckers? Why because they don't wish to be a pawn in Putin's twisted game?

I don't know if they would be willing to fight for a better Russia. I am however aware of several Russian expats, including former intelligence officers, who would gladly support it. Not every Russians are as blind as you.



Russian democracy was fighting in Donbass for 8 years and continues to do so now in spite of how appallingly bad Kremlin was handling this war.
That's not Russian democracy. That's Russian prostitutes. People who murdered and raped innocents. Not all of them, but enough of them.

Russian democracy are the people who have been opposing this war and Putin for years.

That's what you don't seem to grasp. There's a voice. A howl calling for the Russians to wake up and stop being mindless indoctrinated drones.

FFS you guys committed war crimes in Ukraine all for nothing. Well, for Putin... Which is pretty much the same.

What? you think he'll pat you in the back? Oh and if you die, be happy.... Your family will receive a "new" obsolete fridge. That's what your life is worth to them.

Wake the fuck up, mate. If not for yourself, for your descendants. Or do you think you guys are so docile disillusioned that you only choice in life is to go where the wind blows?


You think our rebellions were bloodless? They weren't. But our people said at one point that's fucking enough. That's also what former USSR States have said.

And it DOESN'T have to come from Brussels or Washington. In fact, it shouldn't. It's your State, it must come from YOU. We can only support you in the process.

It's the only choice left and deep down, you know it. The only question you need to ask is when will it be fucking enough? When this fucker will ask you to go toe to toe against the West (and it will be your end)? Russia has no chance against the West. The dream of a Russian empire will never happen.

The second question you need to ask yourself is this one: are you a mindless drone?
 
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Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
It is simply because most of you guys have no idea what it actually means to fight a government. You think that 'chanting in the street' or 'standing with a sign' is 'fighting a government', but it isn't. You say that we need to take our freedom? Last time Russian people took their freedom we built the Soviet Union. Human cost of that was much worse than whatever is going on now both in absolute terms and in relative ones. So I would be very careful about some wishes in your place.

If Russian people would suddenly decide to voice their opinion it would be something very unpleasant.
Oh, don't worry, we remember pretty well the last time Russia decided to take its own issues on beating up'its neighbours, that's why all its neighbours are allied now.
Ancient history at that point. I'm literally one generation removed from people who built the Soviet Union. I had direct interactions with them. And then I lived through a reverse process of what they lived through. It was also unpleasant.

Again. people's memory is very short apparently. Russia had a democracy for two years between 1991 and 1993. Infant democracy, but still. This democracy was smothered in the cradle under the general applaud of all the people who are now calling Russians to topple our government. Why? Because Russian democracy had too much of reddish-brown tint for you people to accept. Why do you think that you would like Russian democracy more now than you liked it 29 years ago? Anniversary of the event is not far off.

Do you think all these fuckers who fled the country and now talk about how we need special passports to distinguish 'decent Russian people' from filthy orcs would lead this hypothetical Russian democracy? Nah, they will be hanging over the nearest lamp posts the moment they would try to pull it. You would need to park NATO armor on the Red Square to install them to power. Russian democracy is not former bureaucrats or oligarchs who were pushed out of power and now prostitute themselves for the highest bidder in the Western media. Russian democracy was fighting in Donbass for 8 years and continues to do so now in spite of how appallingly bad Kremlin was handling this war.

Russian people had a lot of admiration towards the West and democracy. But you kinda failed at leading by the example in the years following the fall of the Soviet Union. Now it is very hard to sell to Russian people anything that comes either from Brussels or especially from Washington. There is no trust here, no one really believes in the good intentions anymore and the showings of past few months only reinforced that.
We ain't asking for Russia to become Sweden or something like that, just for its people to acknowledge that their leader is a weak man who fucked up his little war through enough incompetence to get a dozen WW2 Soviet generals 'suicided', and to stop being sent like sheep to the slaughter for literally no reason. It's, like, worse than WW1 in terms of utter idiocy: during the Great War, losing it meant losing most of your economy, colonies and the such, and the other side wanted nothing but complete victory, while now, Russia can pull back at any time from the territories it illegally occupies since 2014 and that'll be it.

In 1917, the French Army understood this and mutinied en masse not to stop the war for it understood the stakes, but to stop the idiocy of infantry charges. If your fellow citizens can't understand that the Western equipped Ukrainian artillery is much more dangerous than Putin's cronies and that said artillery just wants them out of their land? Then these idiots kinda deserve what happens to them.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
People, please.
Having @crueldwarf participating here and sharing his perspective is not something to take for granted, and he's much more likely to stay around if certain people can leave off tub-thumping at him. In his shoes one might not think it wise to hang around on a site where they preach sedition.

@Arius , @Rufus Shinra - be reasonable. Crueldwarf is not the Russian government, just an ordinary person who has zero control over what the government of his country gets up to.

One of my countrymen once observed that Western liberals "are the most ignorant people in the world, because they always talk and never listen".
Don't keep living up to that stereotype.
 

Damar

Well-known member
That and the return of the 2 million Ukrainians they kidnapped, even the ones they've killed must have the bodies returned but other than that-YAH RLY.

Ukraine wants this war to end, but it can't due to Russians being unable to accept they aren't strong but weak and pathetic, and thus need to be forcibly removed from Ukrainian soil to at least make a start on willing to consider peace.
 

Kamakura bakufu

Well-known member
Yep. Noone gives a shit about Russia, the only demands are to get back Ukrainian territories unlawfully invaded by Russia such as Crimea and Donbass/Luhansk. Pretty reasonable as far as demands go against war criminals.
The reason this war happen is because Russia want even more than that, Russia will collapse before all those things happen.
 
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