What's new
Frozen in Carbonite

Welcome to FiC! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Eastern Europe News

Scotty forgot that lose or not Napoleon was the general that did park his ass in Moscow. Try not to buy in the 'cheese eating surrender monkey' thing the US loves to talk about.
 
Pretty well: we won the war in the end, even occupied part of Germany for half a century with our troops. Why the question?
So did we. And the clay we got is still with us.
But calling it or what France did a flawless victory would be insincere.
As for Russia. We once held Moscow for six years. They took offense and then held on to Warsaw for 120 years.
 
So did we. And the clay we got is still with us.
But calling it or what France did a flawless victory would be insincere.
As for Russia. We once held Moscow for six years. They took offense and then held on to Warsaw for 120 years.
And Spain was once a terrifying military power too. But now, like Russia, it's a minor force, but unlike Russia, Spain knows not to stir shit because it'd lead to the utter destruction of its military potential, like what is happening with the Russians.
 
And Spain was once a terrifying military power too. But now, like Russia, it's a minor force, but unlike Russia, Spain knows not to stir shit because it'd lead to the utter destruction of its military potential, like what is happening with the Russians.
That is a strange thing to point out as the only people that can actually be a real threat to Spaniards are the French. Portugal is as threatening to Spain as Belgium is to the Germans.
Spain doesn't have a large military, because they don't need one.
Russia has China, Turkey, Iran, Japan, US, and it looks like Ukraine will be added to the list of people that will be a threat from now on.
Russia was always a sizable military power because they need to be.

From what you said before, you are of the opinion that Russia will be broken by the current war. I don't dispute that. It certainly looks like it will be.
But they are not going to crumble. Iran didn't after an 8-year-long total war and 40 years of sanctions.
The worst-case scenario for Russia would be economic ruin and becoming China's client state.

As a side note, Spain as example is not ideal. The riches that allowed them to be a terrifying military power were from a very opportune, for them, series of events. The exploitation of the colonies let them basically shovel silver back home. Spain of the Great Armada time has more in common with Saudi Arabia today than it has with Russia. Russia's power is closer to that of XVIII century Sweden.
 
That is a strange thing to point out as the only people that can actually be a real threat to Spaniards are the French. Portugal is as threatening to Spain as Belgium is to the Germans.
Spain doesn't have a large military, because they don't need one.
Russia has China, Turkey, Iran, Japan, US, and it looks like Ukraine will be added to the list of people that will be a threat from now on.
Russia was always a sizable military power because they need to be.
Though these days, the reason everyone tends to have a lot of guns pointed at Russia is because Russia is acting in a particularly irrational and violent fashion, combined with a recent history of swallowing its neighbours. As for them collapsing, probably not, but they're very likely to be relegated to second- or third-tier power due to their lack of technological/scientific base, limited industrial capabilities and massive corruption, so Iran is a pretty good comparison. And given how things go when it comes to advanced products and industry, I frankly fail to see how they'd be able to catch up: remember that a major power like China needs decades to start catching up on the US in many fields or even on Western European countries that are much smaller but have an established know-how base in critical fields. The future of Russia after this epic fail looks more like the one of a resource zone, selling raw materials and buying advanced products but incapable of being really relevant in global affairs anymore while the EU, Chinese and US corporations eat the place piecemeal.
 
The future of Russia after this epic fail looks more like the one of a resource zone, selling raw materials and buying advanced products but incapable of being really relevant in global affairs anymore while the EU, Chinese and US corporations eat the place piecemeal.
I said China's client state and not a resource zone as you said before because I don't see post-war Russia letting EU and US companies back.

The place was a resource zone in essence already. Their exports are petroleum and agricultural goods. In the top 20 exports, the only thing of note are gas turbines.
Even farming equipment, something they were known for in the past, is not on the list.

Plus it is not like Russia was relevant in global affairs since 1991.
The only thing of note they did was send troops to support Assad. They were relevant only to the people they have a border with.

At this point, I guess you can make a connection between Ukraine vs Russia to Israel vs Arabs.
Ukraine playing a less capable Israel and Russia playing the part of incompetent Arabs flawlessly.
Russia however has far less economic pull with their gas than the Arabs had with their Oil.
 
I said China's client state and not a resource zone as you said before because I don't see post-war Russia letting EU and US companies back.
Meh, the way I see it, it'll be less a Russian decision than whatever local authority who'll receive the suitcase full of cash. One of the likely consequences of the war is the loss of power of the central authorities: less cash to distribute, less military force to apply, less influence overall, and all of this also suggests it'll be a matter of paying the right governor and police chief rather than the president.
The place was a resource zone in essence already. Their exports are petroleum and agricultural goods. In the top 20 exports, the only thing of note are gas turbines.
Even farming equipment, something they were known for in the past, is not on the list.
Yep, I believe I've posted the export charts, Russia's looks like a random African country's, but as indicated, the difference will be for centralization.
At this point, I guess you can make a connection between Ukraine vs Russia to Israel vs Arabs.
Ukraine playing a less capable Israel and Russia playing the part of incompetent Arabs flawlessly.
Russia however has far less economic pull with their gas than the Arabs had with their Oil.
Eyup, at least Qatar knows that it can use its cash to buy Rafale and therefore buy our FIFA vote to get the World Cup organized there in order to have nice soft power (not kidding, that's what happened), a more effective use of money than poisoning dissidents all over Europe and bombing stuff there.
 
Meh, the way I see it, it'll be less a Russian decision than whatever local authority who'll receive the suitcase full of cash. One of the likely consequences of the war is the loss of power of the central authorities: less cash to distribute, less military force to apply, less influence overall, and all of this also suggests it'll be a matter of paying the right governor and police chief rather than the president.
This does not sound like a credible outcome.
While corruption is an authoritarian regime's favorite pastime, there is very little possibility there will be a loss of central power influence. The reverse is more likely.

And is not like a corporation can exploit a country without el Presidente giving his ok.
GM and McDonald's will not get much money out of Russia, SAIC Motor and Huawei will.
 
While corruption is an authoritarian regime's favorite pastime, there is very little possibility there will be a loss of central power influence. The reverse is more likely.
Heh, hard to have strong centralized power when the previous regime did a massive effort getting all power in the hands of an individual who's likely to get the 9 mm retirement after demolishing all the tools usually guaranteeing the autocracy's strong control: the army will be gutted and PMC are rising to political/military prominence, corruption is everywhere but the central government lacks money, continuous purges won't make for a strong addministration.
 
Heh, hard to have strong centralized power when the previous regime did a massive effort getting all power in the hands of an individual who's likely to get the 9 mm retirement after demolishing all the tools usually guaranteeing the autocracy's strong control: the army will be gutted and PMC are rising to political/military prominence, corruption is everywhere but the central government lacks money, continuous purges won't make for a strong addministration.
And how would that let US and EU companies make a profit from Russia?

A Russian Oblast is not self-sustaining. They rely on the central government for almost all necessities.
A governor that ignores Moscov will quickly see his Oblast economically blockaded and his people moving out.
 
And how would that let US and EU companies make a profit from Russia?

A Russian Oblast is not self-sustaining. They rely on the central government for almost all necessities.
A governor that ignores Moscov will quickly see his Oblast economically blockaded and his people moving out.
That's assuming the central government has that much power. You and I both know that in failed states, this isn't happening much, and Russia is well on its way to become one.
 
That's assuming the central government has that much power. You and I both know that infailed states, this isn't happening much, and Russia is well on its way to become one.
Here we disagree.

The only failed state is post-Khadafi Duck Lybia. Russia's trajectory is not going anywhere near that shit show.

Russia, in the most pessimistic worst-case scenario for them scenario, is headed toward Tyranny, not Anarchy
 
A video that talks about current Polish military modernization

tl;dr version of the above is that Poland is trying to modernize its Military Industrial Complex.
The Koreans are willing to do that on top of selling tanks and guns.

My own two cents on this is that out of all the industrial partners we had over the years, Koreans have shown themselves to be the most reliable.
Plus the only other option the French-German Eurotank thing is not yet ready and we got kicked out of the project, for reasons I can only speculate on.

There is likely some political backstage horse trading going on behind all this and it would be hilarious when we get to read it in 30 years' time.
 
Here we disagree.

The only failed state is post-Khadafi Duck Lybia. Russia's trajectory is not going anywhere near that shit show.

Russia, in the most pessimistic worst-case scenario for them scenario, is headed toward Tyranny, not Anarchy

Anarchy is always a temporary thing.
 
A video that talks about current Polish military modernization

tl;dr version of the above is that Poland is trying to modernize its Military Industrial Complex.
The Koreans are willing to do that on top of selling tanks and guns.

My own two cents on this is that out of all the industrial partners we had over the years, Koreans have shown themselves to be the most reliable.
Plus the only other option the French-German Eurotank thing is not yet ready and we got kicked out of the project, for reasons I can only speculate on.

There is likely some political backstage horse trading going on behind all this and it would be hilarious when we get to read it in 30 years' time.


Ok, i also heard about that Poland wants to buy Kimchi....
Do we know how good or bad their gear is ??
 
Poland wants that sweet sweet EU money but not its principles and just like Hungary so it makes sense they try to upgrade and modernize their own military construction abilities.

Current events were a godsend for them but the fact remains several East Euro countries are backslidding hard.

Kinda ironic how many are willing to shit on Greece and keep the old Pay Debts meme alive but stay mum over the EU eastern expansion.
 
Ok, i also heard about that Poland wants to buy Kimchi....
Do we know how good or bad their gear is ??
We have been buying Korean tracked chassis for AHS Krab self-propelled Howitzers.
The thing used to have a French 155mm gun British turret and Polish FCS and extended T-72 chassis.
The initial chassis had a number of flaws so we bought the K9 chassis and the finished product works.

As to the question of how good or bad it is?
The K2 is more or less a General Dynamics design that was changed enough to let them export it.
The Type-88/K1 was a perfectly serviceable tank, the one that replaced it in production cannot be all that bad.
The thing it will be replacing is the PT-91. A very old tank. The clue is in the name. It is called PT-91 because the design was finalized in 1991.
For example, the fire control computer has 8088 processor it.
The Twardy was also not a clean slate design. It is a modernization of the T-72. It contemporary would be the very first T-90.


The FA-50 is an aircraft that also works. Technically it did see combat.
It will be replacing MiG-29 9.13 and Su-22M4 all made in the 1980's. So it will be replacing stuff that was relegated to second-line duty a long time ago.
The plane in its inception was to have the air-to-ground capabilities of an F-16C on a less capable airframe.
The FA-50 is no Eurofighter or Rafale but we ordered the F-35 as well.
 
Poland wants that sweet sweet EU money but not its principles and just like Hungary so it makes sense they try to upgrade and modernize their own military construction abilities.

Current events were a godsend for them but the fact remains several East Euro countries are backslidding hard.

Kinda ironic how many are willing to shit on Greece and keep the old Pay Debts meme alive but stay mum over the EU eastern expansion.

Greece isn't going to Pay Debts. The sane thing to do would be write off those debts, and not lend them any more money.
Oh, and throw Greece out of the EU.
 
The Chinese, for starters, considering how much they paid for a strategic port there. Or anyone who wants a critical place in the Med with a good military force and a lot of maritime resources. You know, anyone whose education goes beyond US cable news pundits.

China Will Grow Larger...

I think we can agree that the PRC has absolutely no legitimate business putting military bases in the Med.

Though the scenario of them bringing shedloads of PLA troops to Greece and then trying to invade the rest of Europe through the Balkans...
I hope I didn't give you any muscle injuries.
 
Back
Top Bottom