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France, Yes! Macron wants to strangle European competitiveness, establish Ministry of Truth.

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
In a nutshell: what Macron is proposing?
In his open letter to Europe, Mr Macron proposes the creation of several new bodies that would oversee change within the EU. They are:
  • European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties
  • European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"
  • An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"
  • European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"
  • A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"
  • A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states
The French president then suggests bringing in new social security measures for EU citizens, including a new "EU minimum wage" that would be "appropriate to each country, negotiated collectively every year".

He also says that the EU should have a "social shield" that would guarantee that workers doing the same job get the same pay.

"[Europe] needs to drive forward a project of convergence rather than competition," he adds.

Mr Macron also proposes new EU-wide environmental targets - "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025" - which would be financed by a new European Climate Bank.

A new "European food safety force" would enforce the EU's food controls, while funding independent scientific research to combat the influence of corporate lobbies.

"We can't let nationalists with no solutions exploit people's anger," he concludes. "We can't sleepwalk to a diminished Europe... European humanism demands action."
Do it! Europa must burn!

Is this how we get a Second Soviet Union?
 

IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author
  • European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties
  • European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"
  • An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"
  • European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"
  • A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"
  • A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states
No Ministry of Truth here, for posterity.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
Explain why this is amazing, please?
-Basically the Ministry of Truth.
-More government meddling making it unattractive for businesses to stick around.
-Zero internal competition.​
-Increased Protectionism​
-France is the only country that makes babies above the replacement level, they're gonna need to really get their French on if they want their youth to support Europe's ageing population​
-European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide(not just EU) border force agency and asylum office
-European security council that would have "the UK on board"(in a world where Yurp can barely into NATO)
-A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"(Kulaks getting Gulag'd!)
-European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"(Reminder they couldn't even met their Paris goals, nor their Tokyo ones)
-ZERO CARBON!

This is amazing, I want this.
 
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Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
If the OP is triggered, this means Europa is going to rule the entire galaxy soon with smart and thoughtful policies while Murika continues its collapse into irrelevance and ethnic warfare. Hon hon hon, monsieur Spear, we will have a good word for you with the Chinese occupation force once it liberates your colonies.

EDIT: as for NATO, why would we spend too much time with the US when it comes to the military, given how it is a bunch of losers who fail at their wars? I mean, for fuck’s sake, at least, Italy managed to beat Ethiopia, they have a better war record than the US!
 
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50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
If the OP is triggered,
Touched a nerve?

EDIT: as for NATO, why would we spend too much time with the US when it comes to the military, given how it is a bunch of losers who fail at their wars? I mean, for fuck’s sake, at least, Italy managed to beat Ethiopia, they have a better war record than the US!
Definitely touched a nerve.

this means Europa is going to rule the entire galaxy soon with smart and thoughtful policies while Murika continues its collapse into irrelevance and ethnic warfare.
Like it has managed to do never in its entire history? Also, projection much?


Lastly, I want Europe to do this. So that I can laugh. I am sincerely hoping they go along with it.
 

IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author

Yesman

Not-Hostile Robot Caretaker
Author
-Basically the Ministry of Truth.
-More government meddling making it unattractive for businesses to stick around.
-Zero internal competition.​
-Increased Protectionism​
-France is the only country that makes babies above the replacement level, they're gonna need to really get their French on if they want their youth to support Europe's ageing population​
-European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide(not just EU) border force agency and asylum office
-European security council that would have "the UK on board"(in a world where Yurp can barely into NATO)
-A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"(Kulaks getting Gulag'd!)
-European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"(Reminder they couldn't even met their Paris goals, nor their Tokyo ones)
-ZERO CARBON!

This is amazing, I want this.
M9 you fail at 1984 references.
 

Lordvile

Member
European Agency for the Protection of Democracies,
Well, looks like it's needed but this is going to become a state's defense force, so I am leery of ceding it to anyone other than the government.
European Council for Internal Security
The UK does not want to play ball but it looks more like a cross border jurisdiction police force authorized to make arrests.
An EU minimum wage,
This is a issue of the national budget and EU is not going to guarantee it if they have to pay for other country's bills.
Also, the Schengen agreement makes it easy for businesses to poach ahem recruit the skilled workers of other countries.
European Climate Bank,
This is good. Europe will profit from it.
A European food safety force
Well, I don't know about the food dumping but looks like protectionism.
Is dumping by India ,China and USA really this big a problem?
A Conference for Europe
UNGA writ small?
Doesn't it already exist in the EU council?

I hope Brexit does not axe the scientific research programs which British scientists contribute to.
Being under a saner and more stale government has kept EU at the fore of technological advances.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Is this how we get a Second Soviet Union?
It would be, if Macron had the power to make this happen. The economic measures alone would lead either to a complete destruction of EU's internal market, and the EU itself, or to a subsidy program so massive that even the USSR never dreamt of it. Luckily the Germans will have none of it, and they're the stronger power inside EU.
 

Balerion

Well-known member
It would be, if Macron had the power to make this happen. The economic measures alone would lead either to a complete destruction of EU's internal market, and the EU itself, or to a subsidy program so massive that even the USSR never dreamt of it. Luckily the Germans will have none of it, and they're the stronger power inside EU.
That and Italy will openly tell them to fuck off on most of the proposals. Considering how they have a dead man's switch...
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
It would be, if Macron had the power to make this happen. The economic measures alone would lead either to a complete destruction of EU's internal market, and the EU itself, or to a subsidy program so massive that even the USSR never dreamt of it. Luckily the Germans will have none of it, and they're the stronger power inside EU.
Huh. And here I thought that strong protectionism and close control over the strategic industries, research and engineering was a hallmark of the US. And it works very well to provide a strong economy. Much better, actually, than the free market done by the EU and which offers a much stronger market competition than the US or China.

The powerhouses like the US or China have a planned economy, so why shouldn’t we?

TBH, it was one of the big mistakes of the Union, to encourage completely free competition when noone else in the West was doing it. I hope we will follow the example of the US and have a strongly protected market guided by the government to a healthy level of cooperation between itself, industry and academia alongside government-mandated objectives. That’s what I witnessed in the US, and it was impressive, such a planned economy designed to block anyone from the outside if they try to take over some strategic industries.

Good idea too, to protect ourselves from foreign cyberoffensives. Can you imagine, having a leader elected by the Russians who would proceed to fuck all the economy, society and diplomacy?
 
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Wakko

Well-known member
The powerhouses like the US or China have a planned economy, so why shouldn’t we?
I have nothing against a planned economy (to an extent, of course). There's always some planning involved - that's what laws and directives regulating economy and market are about. I was talking about things like common minimum wage or one pay for one job, EU-wide. That is not doable and does not exist anywhere - not even inside the bigger EU states. You know that the same job has different pay depending on whether the place of employment is in Paris or somewhere in the middle of nowhere in France. This is the same here in Slovakia - I work over 60 km from where I live, because I can get much better money for the same work than I would close to my home.
And yes, EU should start taking cyber security more seriously, right now the US would massacre us in 5 minutes if it decided to do so. Filtering fake news won't work - half of what will be filtered won't be fake, merely uncomfortable news, and half of fake news will find new ways to reach the public 5 minutes after one way is shut. Only educating people will work (and that will take at least 20 years to start showing results).

TBH, it was one of the big mistakes of the Union, to encourage completely free competition when noone else in the West was doing it. I hope we will follow the example of the US and have a strongly protected market guided by the government to a healthy level of cooperation between itself, industry and academia alongside government-mandated objectives. That’s what I witnessed in the US, and it was impressive, such a planned economy designed to block anyone from the outside if they try to take over some strategic industries.
From the OP it seems to me that Macron was talking of killing intra-EU competition. Using (rational) barriers in relation to the rest of the world makes sense, but I think this is already happening.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
From the OP it seems to me that Macron was talking of killing intra-EU competition. Using (rational) barriers in relation to the rest of the world makes sense, but I think this is already happening.
The OP is full of shit and you know it. :p At best, we're talking about rationalization of industry, for example to make sure that our railway maker is big enough to compete against the Chinese ones. Just like the end of the Cold War led to the US military-industrial complex to go through many mergers, the arrival of China everywhere means some similar actions are going to be necessary to survive.
I have nothing against a planned economy (to an extent, of course). There's always some planning involved - that's what laws and directives regulating economy and market are about. I was talking about things like common minimum wage or one pay for one job, EU-wide. That is not doable and does not exist anywhere - not even inside the bigger EU states. You know that the same job has different pay depending on whether the place of employment is in Paris or somewhere in the middle of nowhere in France. This is the same here in Slovakia - I work over 60 km from where I live, because I can get much better money for the same work than I would close to my home.
And yes, EU should start taking cyber security more seriously, right now the US would massacre us in 5 minutes if it decided to do so. Filtering fake news won't work - half of what will be filtered won't be fake, merely uncomfortable news, and half of fake news will find new ways to reach the public 5 minutes after one way is shut. Only educating people will work (and that will take at least 20 years to start showing results).
About minimum wage:
An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"
"appropriate to each country", so unlikely to be the same EU-wide in a simplistic manner. As for fake news, it's not necessarly about filtering. For example, in our 2017 presidential election, an attempt at destabilizing the elections was twarted because there is a legal black-out on elections in the news media during the final 48 hours, which prevented most of the effects of the fake document leak, particularly as social media, while important, is much less so in Europe than in the US.
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
Author
So marcon continues to duck up France. Napoleon is stirring in his grave. SHOULD OF ELECTED LE PEN!
 

Heliostorm

Well-known member
We all know you can't possibly suggest regulating blatant lies on the internet without conservatives screaming about freedom of speech.

"Same pay for same work" sounds problematic though, depends on what they actually mean by that.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
The OP is full of shit and you know it
I hope so. Macron is too important to talk stupid.
At best, we're talking about rationalization of industry, for example to make sure that our railway maker is big enough to compete against the Chinese ones.
I have no problem with that. Strong and sovereign EU is my dream.
there is a legal black-out on elections in the news media during the final 48 hours
We have the same here. Nothing will stop fb and youtube though.
"Same pay for same work" sounds problematic though, depends on what they actually mean by that.
Do you remember the problem with foreign truckers working in WEU for EEU wages? That really was unfair, and if he means that I agree with him.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I hope so. Macron is too important to talk stupid.
And he ain’t stupid. The guy can and did dozens of hours of actual debate with random citizens all over France these past few weeks, and noone managed to get awful soundbytes.
I have no problem with that. Strong and sovereign EU is my dream.
Amen.
We have the same here. Nothing will stop fb and youtube though.
This is not DC, our elected representatives aren’t uneducated sellouts.
Do you remember the problem with foreign truckers working in WEU for EEU wages? That really was unfair, and if he means that I agree with him.
This is literally what I was going to bring up as an example. Yep, things can and should be improved.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
And he ain’t stupid. The guy can and did dozens of hours of actual debate with random citizens all over France these past few weeks, and noone managed to get awful soundbytes
No he isn't. IMO he needs a BIG dose of humility though. Hope he lasts long enough for age to provide that. Unlike Hollande or Sarkozy, Macron seems to be able to motivate and lead people and EU really needs that.
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
Author
EU is the pinnacle of modern cuckery.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
No he isn't. IMO he needs a BIG dose of humility though. Hope he lasts long enough for age to provide that. Unlike Hollande or Sarkozy, Macron seems to be able to motivate and lead people and EU really needs that.
TBH, the Yellow Jacket stuff forced him to get back down a bit on ground level. Check the "great debate" he started over the past three months. He pushed the notion of talking back in the stage, with MP, senators, ministers and, in some cases, himself, joining people like you and me to actually discuss what are the issues of our time. Not electoral meetings, not one-sided mega-events, but thousands of small multilateral meetings without any designated speaker.
 

Arius

Well-known member
Sees an another EU-DOOM thread about the EU from an American rightwinger who doesn't know what he is talking about

:rolleyes:

Enjoy your Trump America Inc. where the rich get richer and you're all happy for it.

Just like Trump, you're afraid of a EU determined to take its rightful seat as an independent entity. That's why you don't stop wishing for it to never happen and are ready to believe whatever BS people like Zeihan and co tell you. That's also why the US doesn't want a EU military and opposes any attempt to rebalance NATO. That's why the US keeps interfering.

The US is a superpower not only due to its military, its economy,... but more importantly thank to its network of allies. Europe, in particular. A more united EU raising from the ground in a era where China is also becoming a stronger superpower is what terrifies American politics, especially rightwingers.

The US no longer is the only superpower in town. And their politicians know very well what a more united would mean in regard to its economic/military/... capabilities and its relationship with the US.

It's time the EU reforms itself. Most of the challenges we currently face individually (migration,...) should be faced at an European level.

Trump literally destroyed all of its soft power, its credibility, its image (well... what's left of it). The US is a waning superpower. Its social and political systems is inefficient, outdated and outmatched. It's honestly sad to see an American hoping for the EU to fail when his own system is crumbling all around him... and he doesn't even see it.
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
Author
Sees an another EU-DOOM thread about the EU from an American rightwinger who doesn't know what he is talking about

:rolleyes:

Enjoy your Trump America Inc. where the rich get richer and you're all happy for it.

Just like Trump, you're afraid of a EU determined to take its rightful seat as an independent entity. That's why you don't stop wishing for it to never happen and are ready to believe whatever BS people like Zeihan and co tell you. That's also why the US doesn't want a EU military and opposes any attempt to rebalance NATO. That's why the US keeps interfering.

The US is a superpower not only thanks to its military, its economy,... but also thanks to its network of allies. Europe, in particular. A more united EU raising from the ground in a era where China is also becoming a stronger superpower is what terrifies American politics, especially rightwingers.

The US no longer is the only superpower in town. And their politicians know very well what a more united would mean in regard to its economic/military/... capabilities and its relationship with the US.

It's time the EU reforms itself. Most of the challenges we currently face individually (migration,...) should be faced at an European level.

Trump literally destroyed all of its soft power, its credibility, its image (well... what's left of it). The US is a waning superpower. Its social and political systems is inefficient, outdated and outmatched. It's honestly sad to see an American hoping for the EU to fail when his own system is crumbling all around him... and he doesn't even see it.
HAHAHAHA! We will see about that, Europe is currently cucking itself into oblivion!
 

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