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International Greece to boost military amid tensions with neighbor Turkey

A shooting war is deffo nothing we want or need but since Erdo has gone frothing in the mouth Neo Ottoman for years now there is no choice but to prepare for the worse.

On that note it is simply depressing how far some people are willing to go in SB to dank on Greece despite the opposite side being on an imperialistic genocidal streak for years now.

If it is not Greece wants Instanbul -no we most deffo do not, what the fuck are we supposed to do 10 million Turks!?- it is Greeks don't pay their taxes hence... Idk genocide seem such a good idea...
 
A shooting war is deffo nothing we want or need but since Erdo has gone frothing in the mouth Neo Ottoman for years now there is no choice but to prepare for the worse.

On that note it is simply depressing how far some people are willing to go in SB to dank on Greece despite the opposite side being on an imperialistic genocidal streak for years now.

If it is not Greece wants Instanbul -no we most deffo do not, what the fuck are we supposed to do 10 million Turks!?- it is Greeks don't pay their taxes hence... Idk genocide seem such a good idea...
About this, profits aside (who says you cannot join pleasure to duty), I'm really glad Macron decided to take a stand and to tell the sultan to get fucked. That asshole pissed the rest of the EU for way too long, only for Germany to let it happen without a word.
 
Frankly said solidarity is the reason the deal went through so fast and smoothly.

Nothing like needing stuff yesterday and a friendly power that haz said stuff and political leadership that pushed it at the highest level to get things through.

Tbh there are some editorials here that say some top generals were asking for more Canards, 25 in total, enough for one more squadron but were referred to next years budget.

Translation, if all goes well and the US keep being the fucked up mess it is we may be asking for more of the birdies come next year or at least an option.

Frankly the shitshow the F-35 has become for foreign air forces to procure is starting to surpass the shitshow its developement was and I never expected that either.

I guess 2020 will keep on giving till the last possible moment.
 
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It's kinda the same story as with Egypt. They wanted the canards fast because the US fucked them over by blocking the F-16 from being used in the way Cairo wanted. Fuck, when there was the skirmish between India and Pakistan a few months ago, the US Senate openly said they would look why Pakistan even was able to use the planes and missiles outside the agreed framework.

OTOH, as HMS Sheffield can testify from her watery grave, when you buy stuff from the Frogs, you can do whatever you want with it.
 
Hum entirely imaginary story time, any resemblance to reality is a pure coincidence!

*Setting:The prestigious Dassalt Emporium in Murder n Maihem street*

Pepe Le Murderpew: "Ah monsieur Mitsotakis, it has been a while since we last saw a Greek Prime Minister in our store! Welcome, welcome both you and all your adorable children!"

*Mitsotakis surrounded by a gaggle of impressive military hats wearing kids*

"The pleasure is all mine monsieur Murderpew. Various factors unfortunately kept me from your fine establishment for far too long but! I will make it up to you. Now, I would like a dozen of your finest Flying Murder Machines Canard plushies! You know the kids-"

*Tag,tag*

"What?"

General kid 1-2 and 3: "A dozen? But mooooom! That is not enough for all of us!?"

*Sigh*

"Make that 18 of your fine Canard plushies monsieur Le Murderpew-"

Le Murderpew: "Off course, certainly!-"

General kid 4-5: "But mooom! Why do they get all the cool toys!?*

"Shut it! You will all get to play with them! Now mesie-"

All General kids *Sniffle* WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!"

"SHUT UP! monsieur Murderpew make that 2 dozen-"

Pepe Le Murderpew: "Ah! Mr Prime Minister I apologize most profusely but you have just brought our entire current stock to the check out point."

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!"

"SHUT UP! Now monsieur Le Murderpew, what about those cute Mirage plushies out in the back? Yes the 2000-5 ones? Can I have 10 of those? Surely that would keep everyone happy. And we may get a few more Canards next time. RIGHT?"

*Sniffle* *Shuffle* "-k"

"But of course Mr Prime Minister! Will you be wanting some of our fine stock of missile plushies a well? We also have-"

"Yes, yes I will have one of everything. My apologies if I am being a bit short tempered monsieur Le Murderpew, but the kids-"

"Speak none of it! If I may Mr Prime Minister, while you have always honored our humble establishment, we are not used to having you on such a family outing. I hope everything is well?"

*MItsotakis glancing out the window and the Huge building across the street, currently half on fire and suffering from an infestation of giant rats*

"Well everything is fine for me. For the US Murder Toys and Co though..."
 
"...And that is the total after taxes!"

"I trust you still accept Mastercard? A bit too crowded to lag that kind of cash around."

"But of course Mr Prime Minister! Now will that be all?"

"I think so. Delivery to the usual place and I trust there will be no issues with licenses and hidden terms right?"

"Monsieur Mitsotakis! Our humble store-unlike certian others- would never stoop so low! All our products are DRM free and ready to use!"

"Splendid! Keep it that way and you will be seeing more business from and others."

*Murder Toys R US keeps burning, smoking and oozing in the background*
 

So basically by a majority of 0.2 percent and some thousands of votes, the Swiss people have voted in a referendum to give the mandate to go ahead in replacing their fleet of F/A-18 Hornets.

The contestants to replace Hornet in Swiss Air Force are Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, Super Hornet and F-35.

Well.

Due to surprise Canards! for Greece there had been some low bap interest on the plane by local media and some report that the Swiss will be the second EU country to embrace the Canard since the rest of the choices are...

Well.

Obsolete, a maybe but and HAHAHAHAHAHA no.
 



Well.

Due to surprise Canards! for Greece there had been some low bap interest on the plane by local media and some report that the Swiss will be the second EU country to embrace the Canard since the rest of the choices are...

Well.

Obsolete, a maybe but and HAHAHAHAHAHA no.
Feathers crossed for a proper choice.
 

Whith the crazy idiot presumably out of the White House and alarmed at the performance of the turkish drones in nagorno Karabach Greece moves to further reinforce its Air Force, and gain political capital.

A formal request for F-35s is made while the official deal for the Rafales will be brought in the Parliament early next month, with the first units delivered if the first months of 2021.

If the Americans are being obstinate about their precious birbs, I guess a few more Canards will do :p
 
Smart move. The Amwricans will either concede and prioritise Greece's order or Greece goes to France.

I could just imagine Lockheed's executives panting for tbe extra money.
 
Smart move. The Amwricans will either concede and prioritise Greece's order or Greece goes to France.

I could just imagine Lockheed's executives panting for tbe extra money.
*Looks at the Turkish F-35s*

And they just happen to have a bunch of blocked, sad, orphaned birbs looking for a home...
 
So in light of the effectiveness of Turkish drones in the Azerbijan/Armenia conflict, what are the Greek SHORAD capabilities like? The drones are capable and they are risky to attack with a fighter.
 
So in light of the effectiveness of Turkish drones in the Azerbijan/Armenia conflict, what are the Greek SHORAD capabilities like? The drones are capable and they are risky to attack with a fighter.

Greece has a far larger and modern Air Force than Armenia backed by modern anti air systems Patriot upgraded batteries in the main with some S-300 in reserves plus repurposed trainers in antidrone work.

In short Greek anti air defences have much more depth and ability than Armenian ones plus we can call on our allies for extra.
 
So in light of the effectiveness of Turkish drones in the Azerbijan/Armenia conflict, what are the Greek SHORAD capabilities like? The drones are capable and they are risky to attack with a fighter.
How is a drone risky to attack with a fighter jet? It's not as if they have actual air to air capabilities.
 
How is a drone risky to attack with a fighter jet? It's not as if they have actual air to air capabilities.
The drone doesn't, but launching a missile tends to give away the rough location of a jet. Maybe not enough to immediately launch a counterattack, but it is intel gained at the relatively low cost of an ultimately expendable platform. Possibly so expendable it might not even be economical to shoot the drone with an air to air missile if the missile costs more than the drone itself. I'm really interested in the cost benefit ratio of the small stuff like the loitering attack munitions.
 
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The drone doesn't, but launching a missile tends to give away the rough location of a jet. Maybe not enough to immediately launch a counterattack, but it is intel gained for the cost of an ultimately expendable platform. On top of that it might not even be economical to shoot a drone with a missile if the missile costs more than the drone itself. I'm really interested in the cost benefit ratio of the small stuff like the loitering attack munitions.
Not much you can do with this intel, considering the drones do not have long-range weaponry so must be close to Greece to fire, in turn making the plane's location deep into Greek-controlled space. Then, consider that missile departure detectors capable of pinpointing such a launch are expensive and unlikely to be fitted on expendable drones, and even if they were, you'd get fleeting information on the rough area where the jet was at some point, which won't allow you to do jack shit about it.

Plus, to do something about such a time-sensitive data point, you'd need a jet of your own in the area with missiles. The Turkish F-16... I'll just say they'd better stay far away from Greece, considering the imminent equipment disparity involved. In the end, though, an IR missile is likely to cost less than a drone.

El Cheapo drones aren't anywhere near a game-changing weapon outside tinpot countries fighting one another.
 
The drone doesn't, but launching a missile tends to give away the rough location of a jet. Maybe not enough to immediately launch a counterattack, but it is intel gained at the relatively low cost of an ultimately expendable platform. Possibly so expendable it might not even be economical to shoot the drone with an air to air missile if the missile costs more than the drone itself. I'm really interested in the cost benefit ratio of the small stuff like the loitering attack munitions.


Depends on the missile I suspect.

We got alot of old crap that would do well.

On other news we will apparently be seeking for an additional 2 Canards since a typical Greek combat wing operates in butches of 20 and there was intense pressure from pilots, trainers and officers for that balance not be disrupted by getting just 18.
 
Did not have the time to properly type out a response until now.

Not much you can do with this intel, considering the drones do not have long-range weaponry so must be close to Greece to fire, in turn making the plane's location deep into Greek-controlled space. Then, consider that missile departure detectors capable of pinpointing such a launch are expensive and unlikely to be fitted on expendable drones, and even if they were, you'd get fleeting information on the rough area where the jet was at some point, which won't allow you to do jack shit about it.

Plus, to do something about such a time-sensitive data point, you'd need a jet of your own in the area with missiles. The Turkish F-16... I'll just say they'd better stay far away from Greece, considering the imminent equipment disparity involved. In the end, though, an IR missile is likely to cost less than a drone.

El Cheapo drones aren't anywhere near a game-changing weapon outside tinpot countries fighting one another.

You say this even as new short range AA systems like the IM SHORAD hit the field? Why? It seems a little foolish to invest in counters if the drones pose so little threat.

To be fair, I probably should have been more clear about what type of drone I had in mind here, I'm thinking about stuff that is at the utmost the size of the TB-2. The things where you wouldn't send in a fighter not because they couldn't kill the drone but because it's doubtful it would be worth the cost of the missile. Turkey and Greece share a land border. Now I do not know what that terrain is like very well (a quick jaunt with google maps suggest rocky hills) but it seems to me Turkey could throw a drone in the air at say, Esetçe to hit a position in Feres and that just leaves me wondering what Greece has to counter such an attack.

Mind you, I don't doubt for a second the Hellenic army has the ability to counter such an attack, I'm just curious what the Greeks think will be their best bet, and what the French solutions are to these small drones. Last I heard the UK is working on that lightweight missile with Thales... though, well, British MoD. I half expect squaddies with GPMG's to serve as their real short range AA for the foreseeable future.

Greece has a far larger and modern Air Force than Armenia backed by modern anti air systems Patriot upgraded batteries in the main with some S-300 in reserves plus repurposed trainers in antidrone work.

In short Greek anti air defences have much more depth and ability than Armenian ones plus we can call on our allies for extra.

Informative, but I was unclear. I meant stuff like the IM SHORAD, or the Pantsir S1. Stuff to deal with that annoying quadcopter buzzing around annoying your cat.
 
You say this even as new short range AA systems like the IM SHORAD hit the field? Why? It seems a little foolish to invest in counters if the drones pose so little threat.
You want SHORAD if you expect to be intermingled with the enemy or them to send stuff like cruise missiles or the like in your face. In the case of Turkey/Greece, most of the fight, if not all of it, would be air and sea in nature rather than from the ground, due to the logistic clusterfucks that would involve a land operation supported by both sides. So for the drones to reach a ground target, they'd need to cross a lot of empty areas that are covered by longer-range systems before SHORAD even come into mind. Hell, something like Pantsir S1 is definitely not designed to deal with "quadcopters" but rather to intercept cruise missiles and laser-guided bombs dropped by enemy planes. Drones are a secondary or tertiary target, if only because, well, they're a poor man's missile, with lower speed, range, survivability and payload than actual missiles.
To be fair, I probably should have been more clear about what type of drone I had in mind here, I'm thinking about stuff that is at the utmost the size of the TB-2. The things where you wouldn't send in a fighter not because they couldn't kill the drone but because it's doubtful it would be worth the cost of the missile. Turkey and Greece share a land border. Now I do not know what that terrain is like very well (a quick jaunt with google maps suggest rocky hills) but it seems to me Turkey could throw a drone in the air at say, Esetçeto hit a position in Feresand that just leaves me wondering what Greece has to counter such an attack.
Fuck the shit out of the place that sends the drones and bomb the vehicles that come there to launch them. That's the actual counter, because in the end, these are fancy short-range tactical missiles and not much more. The thing is that their performance makes them secondary assets compared to stuff like actual SAM batteries or warships, airbases, etc. Expect the focus to be on eliminating the SAM coverage of the opposing force via cruise missiles, air strikes and the like, then the opposition will have quite the trouble doing anything of note when you can and will drop very large "drones" of 500 kg with laser guidance up their ass.

The situation with Armenia and its unruly neighbour is that both of them are tinpot countries with no air force to talk about and little capability to do strategic strikes to decide the battle, so drones were used as a makeshift artillery/air strike capability but they do not change things. Drones of another kind have been used for quite some time, and they are the actual thing against which countries are getting equipment (I believe you will notice the difference in effectiveness and dangerousness of these drones compared to quadcopters):

220px-Taurus_ILA2006.JPG


For NATO, the doctrine regarding SHORAD is pretty much that the air force has to ensure nothing unfriendly starts flying near the ground pounders. Russia has a different doctrine, thus has autocannons and the like. And as for really cheap kamikaze flying drones fired by infantry against vehicles, infantry or buildings a few km away, we also have a name for them: Anti-Tank Guided Missiles:

300px-Army-fgm148.jpg


Calling them "drones" do not change much to the nature of warfare. It's just that El Cheapo versions of these weapons have been made available to smaller militaries and paramilitaries.
 
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Rafale are arriving, together with F-35 and new Frigates.

Greece can be still smaller than Turkey, but is probably earning a tech superiority in the Aegean.
 


Rafale are arriving, together with F-35 and new Frigates.

Greece can be still smaller than Turkey, but is probably earning a tech superiority in the Aegean.
Not probably. Definitely. Only thing interesting Turkey has will be the S-400, and you can be damn sure a LOT of people in the rest of NATO would like having combat data on it, if you get my drift.
 
Its worth noting that the most important item and the one pushed at full force to be done are the Canards.

Like Nagorno Krabach showed air superiority is a must in an enviroment where potential rivals have tools to wreck your shit if they are allowed to place all manner of flying crap in your space.

By the looks of it the French defense minister will be giving and getting a nice new years eve present :p
 
Its worth noting that the most important item and the one pushed at full force to be done are the Canards.

Like Nagorno Krabach showed air superiority is a must in an enviroment where potential rivals have tools to wreck your shit if they are allowed to place all manner of flying crap in your space.

By the looks of it the French defense minister will be giving and getting a nice new years eve present :p
Thing is... it's also a pretty good deal for us as we're providing used versions, due to a "small detail" in the plane's roadmap. See, one of the duckie's very strong points is that its upgrades are insanely easy to set up, you can go from an old standard to a new one directly in the hangar, without going back to the factory, swap equipment and the like very easily. At least, until the next standard, the F4. That one will involve new cable setups and equipment that isn't retrofittable to previous planes without some really big work, so there will be a F4.1 and a F4.2 standard, respectively for the current planes being upgraded (that will have the upgrades to existing sensors, the new software, weapons, etc.) and the new ones to be built, which will not be compatible between each other. So, by offering lightly used planes to foreign customers, we can make the sales quickly while using the money to get newly-built F4.2 planes will all the bells and whistles as a much lower price.
 
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