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Indonesia plans to buy some fighter aircraft.

Then what is even the argument here? I said they have no chance and you agree.

They should simply invest in education and healthcare. That and building that new capital city of theirs, since their old one seems ready to pull an Atlantis.
The very same reason India spends money on a military even though it would get wiped out without a sweat by China if Beijing decided it.
 
Which is?
Protecting one's sovereignty against smaller actors and not be a professional victim. That's why India keep planes in the air, even though many of them are so atrociously obsolete they would be refused by many African militaries. In Indonesia's case, it would make the bar of entry quite higher and ensure that a Chinese attack would trigger a much more massive conflict rather than allowing a quick op' to fuck them.
 
Protecting one's sovereignty against smaller actors and not be a professional victim. That's why India keep planes in the air, even though many of them are so atrociously obsolete they would be refused by many African militaries. In Indonesia's case, it would make the bar of entry quite higher and ensure that a Chinese attack would trigger a much more massive conflict rather than allowing a quick op' to fuck them.
Finally a response.

Of course, it gets into the issue that what is a costly operation for our friends in Indonesia would scarcely be a margin of error for China, or that the PRC has no intention to be so....sloppy, anyway.

So in a way, Indonesia is making the same mistake you are. Being bad at maths.
 
Protecting one's sovereignty against smaller actors and not be a professional victim. That's why India keep planes in the air, even though many of them are so atrociously obsolete they would be refused by many African militaries. In Indonesia's case, it would make the bar of entry quite higher and ensure that a Chinese attack would trigger a much more massive conflict rather than allowing a quick op' to fuck them.

What he said. Hell, the rest of Maritime SEA would love it when Indonesia stepped up its naval capabilities. It's a lot of space with a lot of smaller actors (ie pirates and illegal foreign fishing vessels). Why do you think the Indonesian navy and coast guard started blowing up Chinese and Vietnamese fishing trawlers it caught in its territorial waters now?
 
Finally a response.

Of course, it gets into the issue that what is a costly operation for our friends in Indonesia would scarcely be a margin of error for China, or that the PRC has no intention to be so....sloppy, anyway.

So in a way, Indonesia is making the same mistake you are. Being bad at maths.
The same margin of error as India would be, a mostly irrelevant side-show in World War III. You seem to be acting as if a numerous but technologically backward military like India's would be more than a margin of error, the same mistake Saddam made in 1991.
 
What he said. Hell, the rest of Maritime SEA would love it when Indonesia stepped up its naval capabilities. It's a lot of space with a lot of smaller actors (ie pirates and illegal foreign fishing vessels). Why do you think the Indonesian navy and coast guard started blowing up Chinese and Vietnamese fishing trawlers it caught in its territorial waters now?
Because it has ships to blow them up with?

Though frankly, it seems rather disproportionate. A more non violent response would be ideal.

The same margin of error as India would be, a mostly irrelevant side-show in World War III. You seem to be acting as if a numerous but technologically backward military like India's would be more than a margin of error, the same mistake Saddam made in 1991.
Then we agree that Indonesia is wasting its money.
 
Because it has ships to blow them up with?

Though frankly, it seems rather disproportionate. A more non violent response would be ideal.


Then we agree that Indonesia is wasting its money.

Dude, when fucking fishing trawlers try to ram your Coast Guard/Navy patrol boats and/or frigates in repeated incidents rather than heaving to when ordered you'd start blowing them up too.

Also, your reading comprehension either sucks balls or you're being obtuse. Indonesia is updating their armaments, unlike India who can't even build a boat correctly. I don't see any waste of money there, my friend.

Edit: Don't get me started on Chinese and Vietnamese boats playing part-time pirates in foreign waters. In Malaysia alone there were several crates of AKs chopped up and thrown to sea that were carried by the bastards.
 
Dude, when fucking fishing trawlers try to ram your Coast Guard/Navy patrol boats and/or frigates in repeated incidents rather than heaving to when ordered you'd start blowing them up too.

Also, your reading comprehension either sucks balls or you're being obtuse. Indonesia is updating their armaments, unlike India who can't even build a boat correctly. I don't see any waste of money there, my friend.
Reminds me, Indonesia could also try to get some FDI like Greece. Tactical ABM capability on stealth frigates Ould be nice against Chinese ASBM if the need arises while they're pretty good for most regular missions.
 
Just like India, if the only focus you have in mind is China. Of course, anyone with half a brain knows that there are more uses to a military than fighting the neighbourong superpower. For example, Pakistan spends a lot on tea to serve to captured pilots. I hear it's fantastic, thank you.
Then what are we arguing over? It seems we agree that Indonesia should rather spend their money elsewhere.

Dude, when fucking fishing trawlers try to ram your Coast Guard/Navy patrol boats and/or frigates in repeated incidents rather than heaving to when ordered you'd start blowing them up too.

Also, your reading comprehension either sucks balls or you're being obtuse. Indonesia is updating their armaments, unlike India who can't even build a boat correctly. I don't see any waste of money there, my friend.
Why would I? They're not warships. They're just fishermen.

Weapons are not toys. They should not be fired just because.
 
Then what are we arguing over? It seems we agree that Indonesia should rather spend their money elsewhere.
Nah, these planes are a pretty good investment to keep the bar of entry for any conflict quite higher than most nations would like to match. If it was a waste of money, then so would be the IAF and IN.
Why would I? They're not warships. They're just fishermen.
They try to attack a warship via ramming, they get shot, simple as that. Ask the USN what happens when even a large missile destroyer gets rammed by a civilian ship: it leads to fatalities and the DDG severely damaged.
 
Then what are we arguing over? It seems we agree that Indonesia should rather spend their money elsewhere.


Why would I? They're not warships. They're just fishermen.

Weapons are not toys. They should not be fired just because.

A deep sea fishing vessel can sink a patrol boat, Vikram. Deal some damage to a frigate or destroyer, or god forbid breach the hull of one if they got lucky.

Also Indonesia is not gearing up to pick a fight with China, unlike India who can't even deal with the Pakistanis. They are updating their stuff to protect their airspace. Big difference there, dude.
 
Nah, these planes are a pretty good investment to keep the bar of entry for any conflict quite higher than most nations would like to match. If it was a waste of money, then so would be the IAF and IN.
But you just said it is wasteful to keep the latter two.

So therefore, it is also wasteful, by your own logic, to waste money on fighters when you could throw it elsewhere.
 
Indonesia not wasting money on buying armaments. The strategy of Indonesian Armed Forces is not to stopped a Chinese invasion but to delayed the invasion. Indonesian Army mainly focused on guerilla warfare with the help of Indonesian citizen if Indonesian get invade by foreign major powers
 
Indonesia not wasting money on buying armaments. The strategy of Indonesian Armed Forces is not to stopped a Chinese invasion but to delayed the invasion. Indonesian Army mainly focused on guerilla warfare with the help of Indonesian citizen if Indonesian get invade by foreign major powers
TBH, that wouldn't work well for a fight against China, since PRC would have zero qualm doing all the "pacification" operations that usually cost political capital in Western countries.
 
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