Insh'duckie, Indonesia orders 42 Rafale as eighth foreign customer of the plane

[Rufus Shinra]

Indonesia signs deal for French Rafale warplanes, as Paris rethinks regional alliances

Indonesia signed a deal with France Thursday to buy six Rafale warplanes as part of an anticipated total order of 42, Jakarta's defence minister said, as Paris bolsters military ties in the Asia-Pacific.

www.france24.com

It must be one big disappointment for Boeing and its F-15EX as the once impossible to export delta-canard jet finds yet another customer for a surprisingly large order of forty-two planes plus maintenance, training and armament. With close to 500 Rafale built or on order, the jet is getting close to the ~ 600 production run of the Mirage 2000, an impressive performance considering the usually decreasing production as planes become more effective and expensive. I believe the increase in global tensions and the polarization of the world in recent years constitute a strong point for Dassault once again as it can offer top of the line equipment without the political baggage that come with Russian, US or Chinese planes.

 

[t-dugong]

Good for Indonesia.

 

[DukeofDawn]

That is great for the industry, but what does indonesia needs planes for(outside the bare requirements)?
Wouldn't their position on the map suggest an emphasis on the Naval side of things?

 

[Inquisitor Solarion]

They need everything because they lack everything, including money which is why they end up bartering with palm oil or whatever shit they can dig or grow from the ground.

Indonesia signs deal for French Rafale warplanes, as Paris rethinks regional alliances

Indonesia signed a deal with France Thursday to buy six Rafale warplanes as part of an anticipated total order of 42, Jakarta's defence minister said, as Paris bolsters military ties in the Asia-Pacific.

www.france24.com

It must be one big disappointment for Boeing and its F-15EX as the once impossible to export delta-canard jet finds yet another customer for a surprisingly large order of forty-two planes plus maintenance, training and armament. With close to 500 Rafale built or on order, the jet is getting close to the ~ 600 production run of the Mirage 2000, an impressive performance considering the usually decreasing production as planes become more effective and expensive. I believe the increase in global tensions and the polarization of the world in recent years constitute a strong point for Dassault once again as it can offer top of the line equipment without the political baggage that come with Russian, US or Chinese planes.

They aren't going to buy American after the shit that happened around 1997.

 

[Eliar]

That is great for the industry, but what does indonesia needs planes for(outside the bare requirements)?
Wouldn't their position on the map suggest an emphasis on the Naval side of things?

With a good or respectable airforce you you have an all purpose deterrent against everything including naval threats.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

That is great for the industry, but what does indonesia needs planes for(outside the bare requirements)?
Wouldn't their position on the map suggest an emphasis on the Naval side of things?

As Eliar indicated, a good airforce is a very powerful tool for naval defence given its ability to react fast to dispersed threats. Duckie has pretty good naval strike capabilities in addition of doing all roles usually required for fighter jets.

They need everything because they lack everything, including money which is why they end up bartering with palm oil or whatever shit they can dig or grow from the ground.

We'll find a way of getting a mutually beneficial agreement, I'm not worried about this.

They aren't going to buy American after the shit that happened around 1997.

Buy Frog, we deliver and we don't ask questions.

 

[Inquisitor Solarion]

Buy Frog, we deliver and we don't ask questions.

Yeah and the rumour was they were threatened with sanctions by the Muricans if they bought Russian so that was the only buyer left to go.

I wonder if their project with the Koreans will ever take off. What with the Koreans still very dependent on the Muricans for critical components like the the engines.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Yeah and the rumour was they were threatened with sanctions by the Muricans if they bought Russian so that was the only buyer left to go.

Rumour? It's blatantly official they would have been sanctioned by the US if they bought Russian. Told ya, this is a wonderful geopolitical environment for Dassault. :-D

I wonder if their project with the Koreans will ever take off. What with the Koreans still very dependent on the Muricans for critical components like the the engines.

Pretty confident it will, if only because it provides an actual alternative TO the Pigeon for the USAF.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

So apparently, Uncle Sam offered to sell Indonesia 36 F-15 for... 14 billion dollars, compared to the 42 Duckies at 8 billions. Oh, and the Duckies come with ammunition, training and the such while the F-15 come without ammunition for that cost.

 

[DukeofDawn]

So apparently, Uncle Sam offered to sell Indonesia 36 F-15 for... 14 billion dollars, compared to the 42 Duckies at 8 billions. Oh, and the Duckies come with ammunition, training and the such while the F-15 come without ammunition for that cost.

14 billions....
Are you sure there are no mistakes?
Do you have a source?
Alternatively, do you have an idea as to why it would be so high?

 

[Eliar]

The fuck?

The US offered Greece 20 F-35s for 3 billion.

Did they think Indonesia is a fat goose to fleece?

 

[Rufus Shinra]

14 billions....
Are you sure there are no mistakes?
Do you have a source?
Alternatively, do you have an idea as to why it would be so high?

Indonesia – F-15ID Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

WASHINGTON, February 10, 2022 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Indonesia of F-15ID Aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $13.9 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.


The Government of Indonesia has requested to buy up to thirty-six (36) F-15ID aircraft; eighty-seven (87) F110-GE-129 or F100-PW-229 engines (72 installed, 15 spares); forty-five (45) AN/APG-82(v)1 Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radars (36 installed, 9 spares); forty-five (45) AN/ALQ-250 Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability Systems (EPAWSS) (36 installed, 9 spares); forty-eight (48) Advanced Display Core Processor (ADCP) II digital computers (36 installed, 12 spares); eighty (80) Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS) (72 installed, 8 spares); ninety-two (92) Embedded Global Positioning Systems (GPS)/Inertial Navigation System (EGI) security devices; forty (40) AN/AAQ-13 LANTIRN navigation pods (36 installed, 4 spares); forty (40) AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) (36 installed, 4 spares); one hundred fifty-six (156) LAU-128 launchers (144 installed, 12 spares); and forty (40) M61A "Vulcan" gun systems (36 installed, 4 spares). Also included are Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI) (P5 CTS) training pods and support equipment; MS-110 Recce Pods; AN/ASG-34 Infrared Search and Track International; AN/ALE-47 counter-measures dispenser; AN/PYQ Simple Key Loaders; additional precision navigation, secure communications and cryptographic equipment; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support; Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS); Night Vision Goggles (NVG) and support equipment and spares; conformal fuel tanks; chaff and flares; aircraft and personnel support and test equipment; pylons, launcher adaptors, weapons interfaces, fuel tanks, and attached hardware; travel pods, precision measurement equipment laboratory, calibration, and simulators; spare and repair parts, repair and return services; maps, publications, and technical documentation; studies and surveys; classified/unclassified software and software support; personnel training and training equipment; facilities and facility management, design and/or construction services; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $13.9 billion.

Let's go over the list:
36 planes
87 engines
45 radars
45 EW suites
48 computers for the planes
80 helmets
92 GPS systems
40 navigation pods
40 targeting pods
156 decoy launchers
40 guns

Things that are, huh, pretty much installed automatically in a Duckie because the system is so integrated we do not even envision not having it. The Duckie comes with its AESA, its EW, its bloody fucking flight computer and its gun without anyone having to make a special requirement for it!

 

[<Reaper>666]

Ehh, we always were betting on the wrong horse. That's how you can have a working armed forces tailored to your needs when investing smartly.

 

[Jakarta]

Just a note.

With the signing of this deal, and the F-15's. It means that we'll have... up to 5 4 different types of Fighter airframes if we're calculating generously.

We'd have.

KFX/IFX (I don't see any mention of us dropping from the program from a simple google search)
F-16
Su-27/30
Rafale
And F-15 (We also agreed on the sale of the aircraft)

This is multiple times more than the Malaysians (F-18's and Sukhois), and 1 more than Singapore (F-15's, F-16's and Lightnings)

This is quite the diverse number of airframes. I'm kinda worried on the maintenance and spare parts side of things now that I looked into just how many diverse airframes we've got. But I guess we'll see in the future.

EDIT: I've made a mistake, I will unscratch the scratched part assuming we've confirmed the sale of the F-15

 

[Rufus Shinra]

And F-15 (We also agreed on the sale of the aircraft)

Wait a second, this was confirmed? Kinda news to me.

 

[Ryser]

F-15

I'm just a layman, but, do you think the minister of finance is already approved the purchase for it? I mean from what I heard before Su-35 purchase is killed, we're having difficulties in arranging the payment method for it. I just can't imagine how we're going to pay for both of them.

 

[Eliar]

Why the same way all respectable countries do it?

Take loans from the selling countries and pay them that way

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Why the same way all respectable countries do it?

Take loans from the selling countries and pay them that way

Heh heh, yep. But the logistical concerns raised by @Jakarta are quite worrying indeed. Also that the offered price by the US for these 36 F-15 without armament is 14 billions while the cost of the contract for the 42 Duckies with armament is 8 billions. So it would be quite surprising to say the least if Indonesia went for it as well since it could probably buy 70 additional Rafale for the same price.

 

[Eliar]

Heh heh, yep. But the logistical concerns raised by @Jakarta are quite worrying indeed. Also that the offered price by the US for these 36 F-15 without armament is 14 billions while the cost of the contract for the 42 Duckies with armament is 8 billions. So it would be quite surprising to say the least if Indonesia went for it as well since it could probably buy 70 additional Rafale for the same price.

*Looks at his own poor debt ridden country*

Politics dear duck, politics.

Just like mine smalish country has half a dozen of everything under the Sun and the eternal friendship of all weapon industries and attached nations

Indonesia is much larger so they must pay the Iron golden price!

I expect your poor Defense Minister will be taking a few trips to Jakarta in the near future and the French People will discover that Indonesia had always been a stalwart friend and ally!

Perhaps have De Gaulle take a spin around those parts as well.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

I expect your poor Defense Minister will be taking a few trips to Jakarta in the near future and the French People will discover that Indonesia had always been a stalwart friend and ally!

Discover? It has always been obvious for the past eight thousand years, as our next edition of History books will attest.

 

[Jakarta]

Looks like I'm a bit of a dumb-dumb.

Rufus is right, we haven't confirmed the purchase of the F-15. The local media hype is seriously trying to convince everyone that we've already bought it. My bad.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Looks like I'm a bit of a dumb-dumb.

Rufus is right, we haven't confirmed the purchase of the F-15. The local media hype is seriously trying to convince everyone that we've already bought it. My bad.

No prob', procurement is definitely a giga-mess pretty much everywhere, between the official offers, authorizations to sell, letters of intent, contracts, options, etc., which are themselves combined with journalism of varying quality.

 

[Ryser]

Just an update from Indonesia, looks like we will be sending pilots for training in France (and later in Indonesia) to get themselves acquainted with Rafale.

Original article in Indonesian:

Prajurit TNI AU Calon Penerbang Jet Rafale Bakal Latihan di Perancis

Prajurit yang akan dipilih merupakan prajurit yang memang layak mengawaki pesawat produksi Dassault Aviation asal Perancis.

nasional.kompas.com

Translated to English with google tl with some minor fix

Indonesian Air Force Soldiers Candidates for Rafale Jet Pilots Will Exercise in France

Kompas.com - 04/03/2022, 10:25 WIB

Author Achmad Nasrudin Yahya | Editor Diamanty Meiliana

JAKARTA, KOMPAS.com - Air Force Chief of Staff (KSAU) Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo said TNI AU soldiers who became candidates for pilots of Rafale fighter jets would undergo training in France.

The exercises will also be held in Indonesia.

They will undergo training along with the purchase of six Rafale units by the Ministry of Defense (Kemenhan) some time ago. "Our own training will be carried out in France and domestically," Fadjar told the media crew at the 2022 Indonesian Air Force Meeting at Headquarters, Jakarta, Friday (4/3/2022).

Fadjar said, after the acquisition of six Rafale units by the Ministry of Defense, the Indonesian Air Force immediately prepared prospective pilots.

However, until now he has not specified the number of soldiers who will undergo Rafale manning training.

"We are preparing some pilots but we have not determined the number," he said.

He ensured that the soldiers who would be selected were soldiers who were worthy of manning the aircraft produced by Dassault Aviation from France.

"In terms of criteria, we have already prepared them, and those who are eligible, are cleared to go (to practice in manning the Rafale)," he added.

It is known, Defense Minister (Menhan) Prabowo Subianto plans to buy 42 Rafale fighter jets.

Six of them have been officially acquired. Meanwhile, 36 Rafale fighter jets are claimed to be following in the near future.

The six Rafale units were legally purchased by Indonesia through a signing by the Ministry of Defense with Dassault Aviation in Jakarta.

 

[lackofgravitas]

No prob', procurement is definitely a giga-mess pretty much everywhere, between the official offers, authorizations to sell, letters of intent, contracts, options, etc., which are themselves combined with journalism of varying quality.

Falklands islands defence force it isn't
when they got their Grant for new rifles the FCO thought they'd buy sa80 only an idiot would back them the a1 was gash.
they sent out letter to various merchants of death only Steyr replied ( mainly because they had a sales Droid who was a keen angler) so flight to the falklands day demonstrating the wares sign contract rest of the week fishing. fCO went nuts.

falklands islands government has a defence budget one of the attached officers produced his budget got everything on the nod except for the new landrover tyres he realised that was the only thing any of the government had any experiances as they all drove landrovers!

 

[Jakarta]

I assume that the factories in France are making this thing if this is confirmed no?

Second tranche of 18 Rafale for Indonesia enters into the order backlog - Press kits

As part of the contract signed by Indonesia for the acquisition of 42 Rafale, the second tranche of 18 Rafale came into force today. © Dassault Aviation

www.dassault-aviation.com

(Saint-Cloud, France, August 10, 2023) – As part of the contract signed by Indonesia on February 2022 for the acquisition of 42 Rafale, the second tranche of 18 Rafale came into force today. This follows the entry into force in September 2022 of the first tranche of 6 Rafale, bringing the total number of aircraft on order to 24.

The acquisition of the latest-generation Rafale for the Tentara Nasional Indonesia Angkatan Udara (Indonesian National Army Air Force) includes a complete "turnkey" solution as well as a substantial industrial return for the Indonesian aeronautical sector. Educational projects will also be launched as part of the technical training of aeronautical know-how.