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US Politics Mass freedoming: the one thread noone wants but everyone needs

Wakko

Well-known member
That's the question that should be being asked. I don't have the answer.
Reagan's trickle-down "Reaganomics" started a fast uptake in income inequality, with all the negative consequences for the society...



It's a pity this graph doesn't go beyond 2007. The consequences of the quantitative easing period (basically cheap money for the rich) have to be epic... not in a good way.
 

Alcibiades

Active member
Reagan's trickle-down "Reaganomics" started a fast uptake in income inequality, with all the negative consequences for the society...



It's a pity this graph doesn't go beyond 2007. The consequences of the quantitative easing period (basically cheap money for the rich) have to be epic... not in a good way.
My hunch is that you're right. Since these policies have been copied to greater or lesser extents my Western European countries later on, it would explain why they started getting this massacres later and so far on a smaller scale. It would also explain why people seem so uninterested in looking at root causes.

It's still just speculation without further evidence though.

The guy from either dayton or el paso (cannot remember which) literally had "mexicans are invading our border, they must be stopped" as a second sentence in his manifesto. That's pretty in line with a certain politician.
The Dayton guy seems to have been a Warren supporter, so must have been the El Paso one.
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Active member
My hunch is that you're right. Since these policies have been copied to greater or lesser extents my Western European countries later on, it would explain why they started getting this massacres later and so far on a smaller scale. It would also explain why people seem so uninterested in looking at root causes.

It's still just speculation without further evidence though.
The massacres in WE are largely done by people who were largely on the periphery, i.e. minorities from the colonies or people who migrated over, who never quite integrated into mainstream society and were radicalised by extremist ideologies.
 

Alcibiades

Active member
The massacres in WE are largely done by people who were largely on the periphery, i.e. minorities from the colonies or people who migrated over, who never quite integrated into mainstream society and were radicalised by extremist ideologies.
Skimming through Wiki on mass shootings in Germany gives what seem to be mostly nonideological motives. Mostly committed by Germans. (one by a Czech, one by an Iranian.)
 

Balerion

Well-known member
And also, Eurasia had recovered from WW2 at the same time that America had been reeling from the Vietnam war and Watergate Obliterating trust in central government ("If the government could lie about the president committing a crime..."). On top of that, Carter was a failure on a base level (He couldn't command a Democratic Congress) as POTUS that it discredited the Democrats for another decade.
 

Alcibiades

Active member
And also, Eurasia had recovered from WW2 at the same time that America had been reeling from the Vietnam war and Watergate Obliterating trust in central government ("If the government could lie about the president committing a crime..."). On top of that, Carter was a failure on a base level (He couldn't command a Democratic Congress) as POTUS that it discredited the Democrats for another decade.
I was actually thinking that maybe at the beginning it was connected to the immense disillusionment in the US after Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers and so on. But that was almost 50 years ago., and there have been three waves of "look how great America is!/oh no, we are horrible!" cycles since then.
 

Balerion

Well-known member
I was actually thinking that maybe at the beginning it was connected to the immense disillusionment in the US after Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers and so on. But that was almost 50 years ago., and there have been three waves of "look how great America is!/oh no, we are horrible!" cycles since then.
Watergate is still remembered as the moment government was tainted beyond redemption in America, and Vietnam is a byword for catastrophic failure.
 
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Alcibiades

Active member
Watergate is still remembered as the moment government was tainted beyond redemption in America, and Vietnam is a byword for catastrophic failure.
This is a derail, but I discern a pattern in the US. The US goes through cycles where it becomes public where the government has done something horrible (Vietnam etc., Iraq, torture camps), and then the US' very strong internal propaganda kicks in and in a few years there is the idea that everything is back to normal again and we're Good. (Reagan, Obama.,)

For this reason, I don't think basing this continuing violence on disillusionment in the 70s (which is the milieu I grew up in!) is plausible.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
It's still just speculation without further evidence though.
There are many studies about this, like this one. It isn't that straightforward though, I've seen some newer studies suggesting that it's income inequality coupled with ostentatious flaunting of their wealth by the rich class. It certainly isn't income inequality alone, otherwise China would be empty:



I'm very glad I'm living in a green country :)
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Active member
Maybe there's just not enough of them, or their wealth isn't that big, or the other classes are comparatively well-off too...
The country was set back by many years by the 1997 crisis. Took them over 10 years to recover to pre-97 levels a few years ago. I'm not sure how much of the elite are non-Chinese, but one of the pet peeves Indonesia has with Singapore is the presence of Indonesian Chinese money in Singapore (who obviously were not paying their dues). A lot of capital flight from Indonesia went to Singapore, along with Chinese from there.

 
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Horton

Cat
Administrator
Reagan's trickle-down "Reaganomics" started a fast uptake in income inequality, with all the negative consequences for the society...



It's a pity this graph doesn't go beyond 2007. The consequences of the quantitative easing period (basically cheap money for the rich) have to be epic... not in a good way.
Reagan was horrible in social policy as well as domestic


I mean...what? How? I don’t even know how this kind of thing can be read as anything more then a subtle attempt at bloody quasi-ethnic cleansing. Even Cheney had *some* level of rationalisation to his insanely evil foreign policy. This just looks like a subtle way to exterminate a chunk of your population you dislike and nothing less.

Like WTF Reagan?
 

Balerion

Well-known member
Reagan was horrible in social policy as well as domestic


I mean...what? How? I don’t even know how this kind of thing can be read as anything more then a subtle attempt at bloody quasi-ethnic cleansing. Even Cheney had *some* level of rationalisation to his insanely evil foreign policy. This just looks like a subtle way to exterminate a chunk of your population you dislike and nothing less.

Like WTF Reagan?
It was the early 80s, very few cared about LGBT rights at the time. To paint Reagan as some unique devil ignores a LOT of the wider context.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Like WTF Reagan?
I'm not a fan of Reagan either. Apart from Reaganomics and his unabashed racism (he was also big fan of Apartheid), his foreign policy towards USSR directly led to the 1983 shitstorm. OTOH once the CIA explained to him what has happened during 1983 Able Archer, he has completely changed his tune. It's really funny to observe the difference between his 1983 'Evil Empire' speech and the 1984 'Ivan and Anya' speech. But hell, his actor's posturing together with Andropov's paranoia... very bad combo.
 

Alcibiades

Active member
I'm not a fan of Reagan either. Apart from Reaganomics and his unabashed racism (he was also big fan of Apartheid), his foreign policy towards USSR directly led to the 1983 shitstorm. OTOH once the CIA explained to him what has happened during 1983 Able Archer, he has completely changed his tune. It's really funny to observe the difference between his 1983 'Evil Empire' speech and the 1984 'Ivan and Anya' speech. But hell, his actor's posturing together with Andropov's paranoia... very bad combo.
It's notable that American popular memory only remembers the early hawkish Reagan and not the later Friend of Gorbachev Reagan.
 

Horton

Cat
Administrator
And as to people who think we need guns to protect us from the aliens.
This is why as horrible as certain SB debates could be, they were far cry from some of the more godawful ones I’ve seen irl. I’ve never seen people on SB advocate the US government is using HAARP to create global warming on SB...

SB being a slightly above average in quality which is another thing that also comes up when extended to other parts of the internet. In that you’d encounter some people you seriously wondered if weren’t clinically mentally ill.

Though the idea of using guns as defense from extraterrestrials seems odd to me, as any hyper-advanced civilisation who are getting UFOs sent to Earth, likely will be armed with defenses in excess of our own.

Reason would suggest that not provoking them would be a good idea or maybe not as aliens would have probably have very different psychology to humans without heavy parallel evolution at work.
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Active member
Was Reagan even conscious of anything he was doing towards the end of his term? I read here and there that his Alzheimer's was getting to a point that his aides were trying desperately to hide it from public.
 

Alcibiades

Active member
Reagan's trickle-down "Reaganomics" started a fast uptake in income inequality, with all the negative consequences for the society...



It's a pity this graph doesn't go beyond 2007. The consequences of the quantitative easing period (basically cheap money for the rich) have to be epic... not in a good way.
The reason that I am skeptical about this theory is that I am a left-winger, and it is therefore the explanation that appeals to me. Experience tells me that explanations that "feel right" are almost always wrong.

Was Reagan even conscious of anything he was doing towards the end of his term? I read here and there that his Alzheimer's was getting to a point that his aides were trying desperately to hide it from public.
He seemed coherent to me, but I was a teenager and was more looking at boobs and stuff.
 

IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author
There was an article on how similar Trump's proposals to the 'mental illness' question are in line with Hitler's regime, but now I can't fucking find it. Either way, despite the fact I don't have the article on hand I know what I read and I know I am getting the fucking fuck out of this fucking clown car a fucking s a p and I am glad I started saving up for a passport a few months ago just in case
 

Alcibiades

Active member
[/QUOTE]
There was an article on how similar Trump's proposals to the 'mental illness' question are in line with Hitler's regime, but now I can't fucking find it. Either way, despite the fact I don't have the article on hand I know what I read and I know I am getting the fucking fuck out of this fucking clown car a fucking s a p and I am glad I started saving up for a passport a few months ago just in case
My great-granduncle was gassed by the Nazis because he was mentally ill. I don't think Trump has a "kill everyone sick" strategy. This article sounds like fear-mongering, of the type you used to hear about Reagan and Bush, but it's gone mainstream.
 

IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author

My great-granduncle was gassed by the Nazis because he was mentally ill. I don't think Trump has a "kill everyone sick" strategy. This article sounds like fear-mongering, of the type you used to hear about Reagan and Bush, but it's gone mainstream.
[/QUOTE]
Not taking chances
 

Wakko

Well-known member
My great-granduncle was gassed by the Nazis because he was mentally ill. I don't think Trump has a "kill everyone sick" strategy. This article sounds like fear-mongering, of the type you used to hear about Reagan and Bush, but it's gone mainstream.
Nazis had a strong uebermensch complex that allowed them to rationalize genociding the untermenschen. There's no such thing in the US, the Americans don't think they're excep... oh wait a moment...
 

IndyFront

Yokkiziikzekker
Author
I didn't find the exact article but I found a fucking cascade of them almost identical in nature. AND THIS SHIT DIDN'T START WITH TRUMP (WHY AM I NOT FUCKING SURPRISED)

 

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