What's new
Frozen in Carbonite

Welcome to FiC! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Modi claims that quad united by democratic values, a few days after being declared an electoral autocrat

Vikram

Well-known member

That this man didn't [go away] is proof that the gods are neither just nor kind.
And that nobody calls him out on this proves that neither are humans.

Edited by mod., including fixed link.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is it against the rules? Though mind you, I didn't wish him harm by any conceivable reading of my words.
It can lead to legal troubles in various places, which noone here wants. As for India's political situation, Le Meh, you know perfectly well that 'democracies' are just whoever is currently sharing some modicum of alignment with the US or EU. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are considered important partners in some fields, therefore they are bastions of freedom, justice and apple pie.
 
It can lead to legal troubles in various places, which noone here wants. As for India's political situation, Le Meh, you know perfectly well that 'democracies' are just whoever is currently sharing some modicum of alignment with the US or EU. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are considered important partners in some fields, therefore they are bastions of freedom, justice and apple pie.
It was an American Think Tank that first announced the sorry state of my motherland.

Modi is a threat. That is indubitably true. But nobody on the international stage seems to see that the emperor has no clothes.

Looks like we will have to deal with this ourselves, in the traditional Indian way.
 
It was an American Think Tank that first announced the sorry state of my motherland. ... Looks like we will have to deal with this ourselves, in the traditional Indian way.
The traditional Indian way being that Anglo-Saxons set the objectives, and Indians dutifully work to fulfil them?

Look, being Indian, if you think Modi is full of crap, by all means work to replace him. But putting these sentences in close proximity is just too ironic. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for Indians to dislike Modi, but did you really need foreign think tanks to grade your country and decide its politics? How in the world do you keep expecting respect for India and its future if you keep proudly wearing a colonial mentality on your sleeve? Have some self-respect, man.

Besides, in practical terms, Modi is actually right: if QUAD/QSD hypothetically gains significant weight, American think tank announcements of the sorry political state of his motherland will become vanishingly rare, relative to articles on how important the democratic values of its members are.
 
It was an American Think Tank that first announced the sorry state of my motherland.

Modi is a threat. That is indubitably true. But nobody on the international stage seems to see that the emperor has no clothes.

Looks like we will have to deal with this ourselves, in the traditional Indian way.

Given how fucked the international stage is both politically and economically it will be a long time before freedomizing rears its head again.

Stability is the word everybody is throwing around
 
The traditional Indian way being that Anglo-Saxons set the objectives, and Indians dutifully work to fulfil them?

Look, being Indian, if you think Modi is full of crap, by all means work to replace him. But putting these sentences in close proximity is just too ironic. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for Indians to dislike Modi, but did you really need foreign think tanks to grade your country and decide its politics? How in the world do you keep expecting respect for India and its future if you keep proudly wearing a colonial mentality on your sleeve? Have some self-respect, man.

Besides, in practical terms, Modi is actually right: if QUAD/QSD hypothetically gains significant weight, American think tank announcements of the sorry political state of his motherland will become vanishingly rare, relative to articles on how important the democratic values of its members are.
You sound exactly like another RSS guy, whenever they get criticised by the Anglos. For some reason, it seems nowadays everything is about acting like immature 14 year old American girls on the net.

Screw that. Chauvinism is the respite of fools.

Given how fucked the international stage is both politically and economically it will be a long time before freedomizing rears its head again.

Stability is the word everybody is throwing around
Who cares? We want our country back, and be damned to whatever status quo the old men want.
 
You sound exactly like another RSS guy, whenever they get criticised by the Anglos. For some reason, it seems nowadays everything is about acting like immature 14 year old American girls on the net.
You're the one making a thread where your argument is based on the judgement from random people in the US, as if you were somehow supposed to please them. Yeah, you have a colonial mentality, always portraying the US as superior and as a the ones whose opinion to follow, which is effing hilarious considering your own blatant chauvinism.
 
You're the one making a thread where your argument is based on the judgement from random people in the US, as if you were somehow supposed to please them. Yeah, you have a colonial mentality, always portraying the US as superior and as a the ones whose opinion to follow, which is effing hilarious considering your own blatant chauvinism.
Now, now. We can all read English here, even the ones who are not from your neck of the woods. So let's not be absurd, shall we?
 
Le Meh, you know perfectly well that 'democracies' are just whoever is currently sharing some modicum of alignment with the US or EU.
OK, I have to ask: who are you, and what have you done with Rufus? :)

Modi is a threat. That is indubitably true.
Could you please explain, in your own words, why Modi is a threat to India? I have to admit I don't know much about Indian politics, but trying to learn about it from a US think tank is a wee bit not to my taste...
 
Modi is a threat. That is indubitably true. But nobody on the international stage seems to see that the emperor has no clothes.
Well I didn't like the BJP. I also didn't like some of Modi policy, but to said that he is a threat that need to dead is a very concerning way to think. I mean he is not a dictator like Saddam Hussein.
 
Could you please explain, in your own words, why Modi is a threat to India? I have to admit I don't know much about Indian politics, but trying to learn about it
To condense a long, long story of various corruption schemes, abuses of power, sectarian violence and general jerkassery:

1. He's a Hindu Supremacist
2. From a party of literal, 1920s era fascists that we stupidly never finished off for good
3. Is responsible for a massacre of 2000 citizens when he was Chief Minister of Gujarat state
4. Is a crony capitalist par excellence
5. Has been trying for 4 years (2/3 of his term so far) to turn India into a Hindu Supremacist dictatorship
6. Is an autocrat responsible for bullying state auditors to hide his graft schemes, for arresting hundreds of social activists and journalists, and for resisting his brutal crackdown on Kashmiris

And he recently tried to establish a law that would see muslim immigrants shoved into detention camps, as well as weakening citizenship of Indian muslims. When citizens protested in the millions to get it withdrawn, his minions in various state governments shot down ~30 peaceful protestors and tried to carry out false flag attacks to frame them.

The recent farmers protests saw a rise in brutality to crush the protestors, which has basically pushed my country down to Russia level autocracy. 200 farmers are dead already, a young activist was raped and dozens more tortured in prisons, and similar false flag operations are being carried out to frame the Sikh protestors as terrorists.

And to add insult to injury, India has been in an economic catastrophe 4 years that has seen historic unemployment and income inequality, along with media being essentially muzzled.

There's more, but that's enough for now. Suffice it to say, people are getting arrested for jokes, for social media messages, and just because they were muslim and the cops felt like it.

It is getting to Indira Gandhi levels of autocratic. We don't even trust the army and judiciary anymore.
 
Why is he so popular?
PM Modi's high approval rating among world leaders matter of pride for Indians: JP Nadda

That is from January, I haven't found anything more fresh.
He is genuinely very charismatic, his base is in the cities (where the polls were presumably taken), he doesn't make Trump like mistakes, and he always makes sure to manage the media via a combination of open threats and bribery.

Not to mention that several prominent media houses are owned by his allies, like Ambani and the Sangh Network.

In short, the game is rigged. The only people to voice opposition to him would be the small cities, the rural areas, the South, and the Kashmiri region.

But that's not where the bulk of the population lies, so any national polls are going to be his. His party is losing ground in several places, yes, and his opposition is incompetent....but the above strengths are not to be ignored so easily.

This is not going to be an easy fight for us. My own family, despite me joining the protests, is firmly on his side. It's getting depressing.
 
And is there any serious alternative to Modi? Somebody who could challenge him, and who has a plan on how to make things better?
 
OK, one more question. A little personal, if you don't want to answer I will understand. Are you a coder, software engineer, or a mathematician or something close to that?
 
Something close to that, yes. Why?
Me too. You see, we tend to have a very formal understanding of the world. 2 + 2 always equals 4. When we see a different result, we immediately think that it's wrong and that it must be fixed. I also used to get angry as soon as somebody presented a different result when I was young. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that if others say it's not 4, it's mostly because the task isn't a simple 2 + 2.
The political system of such a huge and complex country as India must be pretty incredible. If Modi is so popular despite the faults he has, it's probably because other people have different priorities which Modi satisfies. That's what my 2 + 2 metaphor was about - you see 2 + 2, they see something different, so to them the result isn't the same as you. Admitting that it's not because 75% of the country is stupid but because they consider other things important can be very difficult for young people. It requires some fatalism to look at it, not like it, but understand that there are objective reasons for it. IMO what you describe as Modi's faults aren't faults, they are features. Features that allow him to control that incredibly complex political system. If he stops doing what he does, he quickly stops being in charge. This will not change until the whole culture changes. Modi just reflects that culture.
 
Me too. You see, we tend to have a very formal understanding of the world. 2 + 2 always equals 4. When we see a different result, we immediately think that it's wrong and that it must be fixed. I also used to get angry as soon as somebody presented a different result when I was young. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that if others say it's not 4, it's mostly because the task isn't a simple 2 + 2.
The political system of such a huge and complex country as India must be pretty incredible. If Modi is so popular despite the faults he has, it's probably because other people have different priorities which Modi satisfies. That's what my 2 + 2 metaphor was about - you see 2 + 2, they see something different, so to them the result isn't the same as you. Admitting that it's not because 75% of the country is stupid but because they consider other things important can be very difficult for young people. It requires some fatalism to look at it, not like it, but understand that there are objective reasons for it. IMO what you describe as Modi's faults aren't faults, they are features. Features that allow him to control that incredibly complex political system. If he stops doing what he does, he quickly stops being in charge. This will not change until the whole culture changes. Modi just reflects that culture.
Oh, I know that. Thing is, if Modi is removed, the Sanghis will fall apart into fraternal conflict and power struggles like always. Then they will be picked apart again.

This was what kept them down for 70 odd years, the fact that they were too violent and psychotic to pose a united front. They regularly wasted every resurgence by going psycho and alienating supporters, which allowed saner parties to crush them.

That's how Modi rose to the top, despite being lower caste in an upper caste dominated party like the BJP, incidentally.

Which us why I'm just angling for Modi to be removed from the board. If history is any example, the rabble will once again rout and be picked apart as they always are.

But as long as Modi, an intelligent and ruthless autocrat, stays in power, that's a pipe dream.
 
Back
Top Bottom