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Mosque Shooting in New Zealand - Multiple confirmed casualties

Australian/NZ ISPs now blocking 4chan, 8chan, zerohedge, kiwifarms, etc... after Kiwi Farms and others refused to assist the ivestigation by turning over the shooter's data.
Can I just say I happen to agree that the police don't have a right to ask for user data like this, regardless of the reason, much less a foreign country asking for the user data of a forum in another country which has no obligation to adhere to foreign laws.

Seriously if I was on a forum or site and I found out those in charge of the site were willing to hand over user data, no questions asked, when the police or government wanted it because of something one or a few members did I'd have issue with it.

And New Zealand police asking for the data seems inappropriate when they have no sort of warrant or court order (and again a site in the US does not have to submit to laws outside the US).

It's like asking for a developer to put in a back door for encryption or security software for government use, which police and governments have actually tried to get done.

Compromising privacy or security because of potential or past crime of a minority of people or singular person using a software or service committing criminal acts does not sit right with me.
 
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Can I just say I happen to agree that the police don't have a right to ask for user data like this, regardless of the reason, much less a foreign country asking for the user data of a forum in another country which has no obligation to adhere to foreign laws.

Seriously if I was on a forum or site and I found out those in charge of the site were willing to hand over user data, no questions asked, when the police or government wanted it because of something one or a few members did I'd have issue with it.

And New Zealand police asking for the data seems inappropriate when they have no sort of warrant or court order (and again a site in the US does not have to submit to laws outside the US).

It's like asking for a developer to put in a back door for encryption or security software for government use, which police and governments have actually tried to get done.

Compromising privacy or security because of potential or past crime of a minority of people or singular person using a software or service committing criminal acts does not sit right with me.
Three words: obstruction of justice.
 
Three words: obstruction of justice.
But they have no sort of warrant when asking this and it's a foreign police force asking for information outside their jurisdiction.

Not giving over user data when there's no warrant or legal obligation to do so is not obstruction of justice. Protecting the privacy and data of other users who had nothing to do with this is not obstruction of justice.
 
But they have no sort of warrant when asking this and it's a foreign police force asking for information outside their jurisdiction.

Not giving over user data when there's no warrant or legal obligation to do so is not obstruction of justice. Protecting the privacy and data of other users who had nothing to do with this is not obstruction of justice.
When it's really obvious that they are going to get the warrant if they want one, you should probably cooperate without antagonizing them.
 
When it's really obvious that they are going to get the warrant if they want one, you should probably cooperate without antagonizing them.
Yeah, the thing is I'm wary of the police and don't have trust for them from both personal experience and because of rulings like this:

In the US it's been ruled that police have no duty to protect or aid people and social services basically have no obligation to prevent the kind of child abuse that is capable of rendering a child permanently brain damaged.

The police aren't here to protect or help you in the US and on top of that you can add all the various cases of corruption, abuse of power, and brutality police have committed in the US. I sympathize with and am generally on the side of people being uncooperative with law enforcement in protecting their rights, security, and privacy in the US and forcing the police to go through the proper legal channels if they want something.
 
Yeah, the thing is I'm wary of the police and don't have trust for them from both personal experience and because of rulings like this:

In the US it's been ruled that police have no duty to protect or aid people and social services basically have no obligation to prevent the kind of child abuse that is capable of rendering a child permanently brain damaged.

The police aren't here to protect or help you in the US and on top of that you can add all the various cases of corruption, abuse of power, and brutality police have committed in the US. I sympathize with and am generally on the side of people being uncooperative with law enforcement in protecting their rights, security, and privacy in the US and forcing the police to go through the proper legal channels if they want something.
The US Police force is generally considered shit, yes. But they aren't involved. I have no personal interactions with the Kiwi Cops, but like the Brits they use the much-better-than-the-US "Peelian Principles" as the basis for their police force.

 
The US Police force is generally considered shit, yes. But they aren't involved. I have no personal interactions with the Kiwi Cops, but like the Brits they use the much-better-than-the-US "Peelian Principles" as the basis for their police force.

Problem is that this won't even fly even without the War on Drugs being a thing. The US police forces have always been on the backfoot when it came to crime since the police have become a government entity.

Also, @V4Guss, you are forgetting that the police in the US isn't one unified entity but basically a bazillion smaller ones, some federal, some state, mostly local.
 
Problem is that this won't even fly even without the War on Drugs being a thing. The US police forces have always been on the backfoot when it came to crime since the police have become a government entity.

Also, @V4Guss, you are forgetting that the police in the US isn't one unified entity but basically a bazillion smaller ones, some federal, some state, mostly local.
Thus the importance of having a common structure for police with the head of local departments being professionals with little if any roots to the local place. It makes policing much less political and less susceptible to undue influence.
 
My point still stands that there's a right to privacy and a purely foreign police force has no authority to compel a person or entity solely based in the US to hand over data or submit to a search. If the US were participating and went through getting a warrant for this kind of thing I would be fine with it.
 
Yeah, the thing is I'm wary of the police and don't have trust for them from both personal experience and because of rulings like this:

In the US it's been ruled that police have no duty to protect or aid people and social services basically have no obligation to prevent the kind of child abuse that is capable of rendering a child permanently brain damaged.

The police aren't here to protect or help you in the US and on top of that you can add all the various cases of corruption, abuse of power, and brutality police have committed in the US. I sympathize with and am generally on the side of people being uncooperative with law enforcement in protecting their rights, security, and privacy in the US and forcing the police to go through the proper legal channels if they want something.
Except this isn't one of those cases. This is someone knowingly protecting the information of a mass murderer. Which is despicable.
 
My point still stands that there's a right to privacy and a purely foreign police force has no authority to compel a person or entity solely based in the US to hand over data or submit to a search. If the US were participating and went through getting a warrant for this kind of thing I would be fine with it.
No, that is no longer possible anymore. Our technological context has changed the rules. This idiot and his posse are trying to use memetics -weaponized memes- to cause unrest and possibly an armed insurrection. Given that in fiction these things have the ability to lurk for decades before becoming a bigger problem, NZ has every right to check.

Rights and freedoms are flexible constructs, mostly structured around two things: technological context and the ability to enforce them. Our technological context has shifted the definitions of various rights and freedoms, and the sooner you recognize that, the sooner we can stop arguing.
Thus the importance of having a common structure for police with the head of local departments being professionals with little if any roots to the local place. It makes policing much less political and less susceptible to undue influence.
Problem, the US as a whole distrusts that sort of thing and has this done in conjunction with our 'DEMOCRACY UBER ALLES' bullshit.
 
No, that is no longer possible anymore. Our technological context has changed the rules. This idiot and his posse are trying to use memetics -weaponized memes- to cause unrest and possibly an armed insurrection. Given that in fiction these things have the ability to lurk for decades before becoming a bigger problem, NZ has every right to check.

Rights and freedoms are flexible constructs, mostly structured around two things: technological context and the ability to enforce them. Our technological context has shifted the definitions of various rights and freedoms, and the sooner you recognize that, the sooner we can stop arguing.
I don't care what New Zealand or its police think they have a right to. A person's privacy, freedom of speech, and freedom from unreasonable search and siezures trumps in the US in this case.

Blaming a website and its community and compromising users' privacy and data in the pursuit of a single criminal who happened to interact with the site or censoring data has issues both legal and moral.

I don't understand why so many people want more censorship, more searches, less rights, and less freedom in the name of safety or giving a government more power than it already has for whatever ends that government may desire.

The thing is I don't trust any government or police force to be benevolent, reasonable, or have the common man's best interest in mind.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. People in power always want more, either for personal gain or a moralistic "it's for your own good".

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here because I don't think either one of us will budge on the subject.

I'm done talking about this because we'll be going around in circles if this continues.
 
I don't care what New Zealand or its police think they have a right to. A person's privacy, freedom of speech, and freedom from unreasonable search and siezures trumps in the US in this case.

Blaming a website and its community and compromising users' privacy and data in the pursuit of a single criminal who happened to interact with the site or censoring data has issues both legal and moral.

I don't understand why so many people want more censorship, more searches, less rights, and less freedom in the name of safety or giving a government more power than it already has for whatever ends that government may desire.

The thing is I don't trust any government or police force to be benevolent, reasonable, or have the common man's best interest in mind.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. People in power always want more, either for personal gain or a moralistic "it's for your own good".

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here because I don't think either one of us will budge on the subject.

I'm done talking about this because we'll be going around in circles if this continues.
Please keep in mind that most democratic countries do not share the US' historical mistrust for the State and for Government as a concept. This will change a lot of the perception for the people you're talking to in this thread.
 
Thus the importance of having a common structure for police with the head of local departments being professionals with little if any roots to the local place. It makes policing much less political and less susceptible to undue influence.

On the other hand, it can lead to white police officers coming into black communities, leading to Ferguson.
 
If segregating is the only way to avoid shootings, then there is a much bigger problem at hand. A policemanofficer trained under the Peelian Principles will not start shooting here and there.

Peelian Principles were never designed for a country with a large racial underclass of former slaves who were forcibly kicked down since their slavery ended (IQ, for instance, largely emerged and became a method of saying "harhar black people are inferior!"). It's pretty telling that those principles disappeared when it came to Black South Africans, Australian Aborigines and Canadian First Nations. Or India for that matter.
 
Peelian Principles were never designed for a country with a large racial underclass of former slaves who were forcibly kicked down since their slavery ended (IQ, for instance, largely emerged and became a method of saying "harhar black people are inferior!"). It's pretty telling that those principles disappeared when it came to Black South Africans, Australian Aborigines and Canadian First Nations. Or India for that matter.
Isn't there a strong class feeling in UK too? If the problem to solve is "not being racist", then it's not the Peelian Principles that are to blame.
 
Some people flooded an MP's email with NRA shit, bitched about how their second amendment rights were getting suppressed.

Kek dumbarses
 
Some people flooded an MP's email with NRA shit, bitched about how their second amendment rights were getting suppressed.

Kek dumbarses
... welp the memetic weapon is activating far earlier than we thought... shit, buckle up people because this might get nasty.
 
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