Oh man... I can guarantee you that nobody here is actually defending Trump. What some of us are saying is "ffs get somebody other than Biden to run against Trump, because the chance that Biden will get mauled next year by a stream of accusations of corruption is too big, and then you'll have Trump for 4 more years and half of the world will die from facepalming too forcefully." You don't want us to die from blunt trauma caused by facepalming, do you?1. Because Trump is already suspected of improper ties to Russia, his son getting a job there is much worse than Biden's. If you'd listed a German company, you'd have a point, if such a double standard were to be applied, but we know you're just defending Trump.
Oh man... I can guarantee you that nobody here is actually defending Trump. What some of us are saying is "ffs get somebody other than Biden to run against Trump, because the chance that Biden will get mauled next year by a stream of accusations of corruption is too big, and then you'll have Trump for 4 more years and half of the world will die from facepalming too forcefully." You don't want us to die from blunt trauma caused by facepalming, do you?
Also, since Kinetic has obviously acquired a poetic licence in the last 12 months, I will paraphrase what he already expressed so much more eloquently: unless you get a president that will be seen as clean of corruption and corporate influences soon, you risk breaking the social contract between the elites and the people that made America so great. And then goodbye greatness, hello mass unrests...
I dislike how the corporate democrats hide behind the progressive left in order to also appear progressive, but in fact are just Wall Street creatures trying to preserve the status quo at all costs.What bugs me most about liberal Trumpophobia is that it is a mask of righteousness that hides nastiness.
Like, "OMG Trump is separating parents from children from and putting them in temporary concentration camps!" *crocodile tears* You know what? The US does this every day, every time it puts someone with children in jail. They don't give a crap, in fact Clinton contributed significantly to mass incarceration. which incidentally is a significant reason for the huge nmber of fatherless poor black famillies. (Whereas the supposedly singularly evil Trump signed the First Step Act.)
If you care about separating children from parents, how about looking at that. Unless you don't, you don't really care. You're just using it cynically as a political weapon.
Hundreds of people have died at the US-Mexican border every year for decades. Nobody cared except some border activists. Now suddenly we care about the plight of migrants, we really do!!!!1
I dislike how the corporate democrats hide behind the progressive left in order to also appear progressive, but in fact are just Wall Street creatures trying to preserve the status quo at all costs.
Bill Clinton is the big villain in all this. He's the American Blair. The one who turned the Dems into a right-wing party, with results that we now see.
By '92, the Democrats were in a rut. LBJ had discredited the progressive wing with Vietnam, Carter hammered the final nails in the New Deal's coffin and they lost two consecutive landslides to Reagan and then lost to Bush Snr. T'wasn't a pleasant time.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Most Republican leaders were silent or supportive of President Donald Trump's public call for another foreign government, China, to investigate his political foe, while a handful voiced concern that the president was trying to enlist a rival power in his reelection effort.
Several House and Senate leaders stayed mum Friday as Trump escalated the controversy that has fueled an impeachment inquiry and plowed through another norm of American politics. The quiet continued as House Democrats released a trove of text messages showing U.S. diplomats conducted a campaign to push Ukraine to investigate former vice president Joe Biden, a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination to face Trump next November, and Biden's son, Hunter.
Foreign interference in elections has long been viewed as a threat to U.S. sovereignty and the integrity of democracy, and soliciting foreign help in an election is illegal.
But Trump found support in his willingness to openly challenge that convention. Vice President Mike Pence made clear he backed the president and believes he is raising "appropriate" issues. Other allies agreed.
"I don't think there's anything improper about doing that," GOP Sen. Ron Johnson, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, said of Trump's call on China to investigate the Bidens.
Indeed now even publicly suggesting conservitises had standards at one point will get said conservatives calling you a liarTrump scolds Romney over criticism about Trump's China words
WASHINGTON (AP) — Most Republican leaders were silent or supportive of President Donald Trump's public call for another foreign government, China, to investigate his political foe, while a handful voiced concern that the president was trying to enlist a rival power in his reelection effort...www.apnews.com
And in a stunning turn of events, Republican leaders discover that it is totally ok and legit to pressure foreign governments in throwing dirt to your political rival.
Fuck this timeline.
If this was a fiction story the conservatives in the US would call it left wing SJW trollish propaganda.,
Indeed now even publicly suggesting conservitises had standards at one point will get said conservatives calling you a liar
Eh. It's not unclear from context that Schiff was intentionally paraphrasing, not quoting, to give his interpretation of the subtext, e.g.:Can someone elucidate something for me? Adam Schiff made up a bunch of Trump quotes. When called on it, he claimed he was just engaging in poetic hyperbole/doing a bit. But apparently Pelosi made statements that these quotes are real. Is this true?
It's very easy to make up motives for the opponent this way.Although I wonder just how much ugly and corrupt crap one can suddenly 'discover' in politics if one moves from 'what is literally said' to 'what the underlying message is', so YMMV.
Next year all nuances will be lost and all that will remain in twitter "discussions" will be "do you remember that time when democrats made up Trump quotes he didn't say?"but it is badly communicated in ways that will probably hurt the Democrats.
Eh. It's not unclear from context that Schiff was intentionally paraphrasing, not quoting, to give his interpretation of the subtext, e.g.:
"Shorn of its rambling character and in not so many words, this is the essence of what the president communicates: ..."IIRC Pelosi was asked if Schiff made stuff up, and said he did not, which if one believes Schiff's reading of the intended message is accurate is not an unreasonable position to take either, but it is badly communicated in ways that will probably hurt the Democrats.
There is a clear double standard as well based on political affiliation. The standard of proof is much, much lower if you don't like the guy.
Will anybody say with a straight face that, if Trump's niece had gotten caught stealing a hundred thousand bucks and just did community service, and Trump's son got a lucrative job with Gazprom, the Dems and their connected media wouldn't be making a big deal out of it? Really?
Yes, I can, because Trump has already done so much fucking worse and barely anyone keeps up with it.
Posted this on another forum, but the more we obsess over Trump thew more the issues that put him in power in the first place go unsolved, just saying.
Except none of it is made up.Yet, people have made up endless things about him.
In your delusional world.Because the point is to damage the enemy. True, false, doesn't matter.
Here's the goalpost shift. You didn't say "evidence of something", you said "made a big deal out of it." Meanwhile for the past 3 years, Ivanka and Jared have bee two of the most powerful people in the country with direct influence over American domestic and foreign policy, handling the highest level of classified information despite having had no security clearance until fairly recently, and representing America in negotiations with foreign heads of state despite having zero foreign policy or political qualifications whatsoever. And this gets talked about for maybe one or two hours a month.I think you're being really naive if you think that if Trump Jr. got a job at Gazprom this wouldn't be adduced as evidence of something. He;ll, a few months ago the fashion was to talk about how horrible Trump is because his daughter was doing stuff at international meetings.
Oh look, Giuliani and Perry have been steering Ukrainian business contracts to people in their circle. Because if you can accuse the Democrats of it, then Trump's already done a worse version of it.As Rudy Giuliani was pushing Ukrainian officials last spring to investigate one of Donald Trump's main political rivals, a group of individuals with ties to the president and his personal lawyer were also active in the former Soviet republic.
Their aims were profit, not politics. This circle of businessmen and Republican donors touted connections to Giuliani and Trump while trying to install new management at the top of Ukraine's massive state gas company. Their plan was to then steer lucrative contracts to companies controlled by Trump allies, according to two people with knowledge of their plans.
The hilarious fact of the matter is that Trump is living proof that these internal problems of yours don't exist. Hillary raised almost double the amount of money than Trump did and still lost. As it turns out, money doesn't buy elections against a motivated (and gerrymandered) electorate. "But the donors!" is nothing more than a fabricated excuse that people like to tunnel on because it makes for an easy target. The actual root of the problems America has lie with the populace, media, and the structure of elections.Trump is president because the US has massive internal problems.
"Everyone is corrupt except my candidate, who is the only person who can save America!" Where have I heard that before?They would have to nominate someone like Sanders, and then their donors would go bye-bye.
I didn't even remotely see his post in any way as an endorsement of Sanders."Everyone is corrupt except my candidate, who is the only person who can save America!" Where have I heard that before?
What part of the entire exchange above particularly the part about "obsessing over Trump/Bernie/insertcandidate and his/her blocs" did you not get? The clown car is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex whether they know it or not. They're all a lot more alike than they are different, this is why it is largely irrelevant and foreign policy remains fixed in a state of frozen imperialist war and the ideological establishment becomes further and further entrenched and backwards-looking/thinking. This is why the American States are a laughing stock among the developed world. They look at Vietnam and go "WTEF", they look at Iraq and go "WTEF", yet we keep doing it. Because this is essentially the same type of "head-in-ass" type thinking as Brexit Britain, but on steroids and decades in the making.Bernie isn't even particularly progressive out of this current crowd, but Bernie bros continue to seem to be uniquely deluded amongst liberals. If this is the only way you can justify voting for him, no wonder he's not doing well in the polls. He hasn't even lost yet and you're already making excuses for why he will.
Right, because repeatedly going on about how the only way to be not-corrupt is to elect Sanders in no way indicates any kind of support.I didn't even remotely see his post in any way as an endorsement of Sanders.
Lol, more phantom boogeyman for you to pin blame on. Please, keep making vague allusions to shadowy cabals pulling the strings behind the scenes.What part of the entire exchange above particularly the part about "obsessing over Trump/Bernie/insertcandidate and his/her blocs" did you not get? The clown car is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex whether they know it or not. They're all a lot more alike than they are different, this is why it is largely irrelevant and foreign policy remains fixed in a state of frozen imperialist war and the ideological establishment becomes further and further entrenched and backwards-looking/thinking. This is why the American States are a laughing stock among the developed world. They look at Vietnam and go "WTEF", they look at Iraq and go "WTEF", yet we keep doing it. Because this is essentially the same type of "head-in-ass" type thinking as Brexit Britain, but on steroids and decades in the making.
Except none of it is made up.
In your delusional world.
He's stated that he thinks Bernie is the most popular politician in the entire US, so him losing the primary must entirely be because the Democratic establishment snubbed him and totally not because Sanders just doesn't have mainstream appeal amongst Democrats.
Lol, more phantom boogeyman for you to pin blame on. Please, keep making vague allusions to shadowy cabals pulling the strings behind the scenes.
Right, are you going to actually run an analysis on how often major news organizations have to retract various web articles and show that ones regarding Trump are significantly above the norm, or are you again just letting a few anecdotes form the entire basis of your argument?Dude, MSNBC just last month had to publically retract one of its attacks.
The list is quite long. If you think this stuff is all true, you gotta get your head out of its partisan hole. You really think that there have been no smear attacks on Trump? Really? Uniquely among the world's politicians?
And... most of these are demonstrably true. He might not be a Russian agent per se but he definitely colluding with Russia, he's definitely a nepotists, definitely evaded taxes, definitely racist, definitely a misogynist, and definitely has some age-related cognitive deficits even if it doesn't rise to the level of dementia. Traitor to the country? If the bar is to take actions for the benefit other countries at the expense of your own, then yes, definitely. The only ones questionable here are pedophile/rapist (depends if you believe his first wife; he has definitely committed sexual assault though), white supremacist (again, definitely racist and supports white supremacy, but it's questionable if he himself is a white supremacist or just likes white supremacists because they support him). The only thing here that is definitely false is him wanting to kill all Muslims.pedophile Russian agent nepotist tax evading rapist white supremacist antisemitic misogynist traitor with dementia who wants to kill all Muslims
I have never said anything like the above.
Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States. If the Democrats are going to ignore that... well I can get another huge belly laugh like when Trump won.
Trump colluding with Russia has been 100% proven, though? I seem to recall that you live in Russia though, so your bias on this subject is quite understandable.Which apparently were 100% true, including the ones that are demonstrably false!
And... most of these are demonstrably true. He might not be a Russian agent per se but he definitely colluding with Russia, he's definitely a nepotists, definitely evaded taxes, definitely racist, definitely a misogynist, and definitely has some age-related cognitive deficits even if it doesn't rise to the level of dementia. Traitor to the country? If the bar is to take actions for the benefit other countries at the expense of your own, then yes, definitely. The only ones questionable here are pedophile/rapist (depends if you believe his first wife; he has definitely committed sexual assault though), white supremacist (again, definitely racist and supports white supremacy, but it's questionable if he himself is a white supremacist or just likes white supremacists because they support him). The only thing here that is definitely false is him wanting to kill all Muslims.
OK, please give me examples of him supporting white supremacy. "He defended them at Charlottescille" does not count,. because he explicitly did not. To actually assert this, you're going to have to use very free interpretations of his statements. I see no indication from his past history, unless you go back to the early 1970s, that he is a racist.
Oh look, more outright denial. We know he colluded with Russia for information on Hillary Clinton, that was the whole conclusion of the Mueller investigation. Only blind idiots actually think "we know" it didn't happen, when the actual statement was that he totally was not innocent but couldn't be prosecuted because the Justice Department policy is that the President can't be prosecuted.Please give me examples of him colluding with Russia. Would that be when he armed Ukraine, which Obama didn't do, or when he sanctioned European companies working with Nord Stream 2, or when he pulled out of arms control agreements? Or would that be all the supposed collaboration to steal the election, which we know did not happen?
How about the time he refused to implement the sanctions on Russia that was passed nearly unanimously by a bipartisan Congress (in one of the last acts committed by the GOP with their vestigial spine before evolving it away entirely)? And the time he told the Russians he was perfectly ok with them interfering with US elections? Funny how when both parties agree that Russia hacking the DNC was bad, Trump is the only one who disagrees.The definition of "traitor," by the way, is broad enough to include just about everyone. Like, the US spent money attacking Libya to benefit France. Obama is a traitor! NAFTA helps Mexico, not the US! Traitor Clinton!
And I believe that you have made your status as a habitual liar whose reputation precedes him quite clear. You can repeat your drivel however many times you want (you're also wrong, but that's besides the point), it's not going to erase all the times you snidely implied that only Sanders is capable of defeating Trump and saving America.I believe that I have made my position on the Dems quite clear. It does not involve the belief that Sanders is a white knight who was cruelly shafted by the DNC.