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On a Knife's Edge, a Post Weltkrieg 2 Kaiserreich Japan Game

Eliar

Well-known member
Eh so we can push through almost everything except for the Diet amendments.

Mini Diet Revision

Imperial Diet
-[] The Imperial Diet will consist of two houses the House of Representatives and the House of Peers.

-[] The House of Representatives will be elected on proportion of the population. The House of Peers in addition to all previously established members will be expanded by 20 seats to be occupied exclusively by prominent women under terms to be discussed and facilitated by the Emperor and Government.

-[] The two houses of the Imperial Diet are equal in every way.

-[] The Imperial Diet may trigger elections by voting that they have no confidence in His Imperial Majesty's government.

Comment: 20 seats are the barest minimum acceptable. Should the Lords keep being obstinate give them quiet warning that all house of Peers seats will end up for grabs by women under the equality amendments. Accept and they get to keep their privileges. Deny and his Imperial Majesty will be disinclined to accept interference when women start going to the courts for the particular issue.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
20 safe seats for women sounds like an acceptable amount. And when woman can get elected on equal terms in the future it can ether be abolished or an amendment can be added giving men 20 safe seats.
The 100 seats thing was too ambitious on second thought.

So a foot in the door now with the 20 seat arrangement, getting rid the ministerial requirement for being Diet members to smooth things over with the government, reduce the reactions from the House of representatives with a minimal increase of Peers seats...
 

Durabys

A Cheshire Exile
People have to work with what they have and this is not a TCI Quest. We basically play the AFS (Alliance of Free States, Reds!-verse Capitalist block) from Reds! but where the Third Communist International is Totalist (Totalist Gang in charge).
-[] The House of Representatives will be elected on proportion of the population. The House of Peers in addition to all previously established members will be expanded by 20 seats to be occupied exclusively by prominent women under terms to be discussed and facilitated by the Emperor and Government.
I would add an automatic increase clause into the law that every n-years the safe seats number will increase by a set amount if not countered by a vote to abolish this law.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
People have to work with what they have and this is not a TCI Quest. We basically play the AFS (Alliance of Free States, Reds!-verse Capitalist block) from Reds! but where the Third Communist International is Totalist (Totalist Gang in charge).

I would add an automatic increase clause into the law that every n-years the safe seats number will increase by a set amount if not countered by a vote to abolish this law.
Please feel free to do so?

I mean @Atlanta-Georgia created the original plan, I grabbed and trimmed it down, any and all additions or alterations are welcome
 
So, first time participating in a quest, not really sure if this is how it works...

How is the state of China is this timeline? What kind of economy does it have? How developed is it? How centralized is it's government? How was the Legation Cities annexed, and how do Chinese view it? How does the average Chinese view of Japan? Is the Chinese identity particularly strong, or is it possible for us to do some sly actions to encourage provincial regionalism in exchange for economic prosperity?

I believe the industrialization and prosperity of the rest of Asia, most importantly China, all the way to near Japan standards, is a must to ensure the economic longevity and the overall cohesion of the Co-prosperity Sphere. However, rather than do economic relations with the whole, a region by region way of doing things, helping empower regional identities rather than national ones, making the Japanese closer allies to the local people than their nation, would help curb any chances of power balance shifts as with each region seeing themselves as separate from the whole, they would pursue interests of their "own", rather than interests of their nation, and we should, of course, make sure that it's in everyone's "own" interests to make money with Japan.

I thought of a long term strategy in China, where, either starting with the Guangdong or Manchuria region of China, we will work with the local government to establish special economic zones, specifically geared to helping local companies, workers and the economy in general prosper. Japanese businesses would be encouraged (by promoting the education of foreign languages in the universities of Japan) to use the local dialects/languages (i.e Cantonese) rather than what the lingua franca is for the nation (It's Mandarin for this TL, right?). Focusing our energies of developing the economies in China by province, then moving on to the next one slowly, causing what I call "development lag", will ensure that there will be a disconnect with the identities of the Cantonese living in their newly Japan-tier prosperity and heavily urbanized culture, and then their country bumpkin agricultural Min people in Fujian for example. Underhandily increasing local tensions with hated cultural sub-groups, like the Hakka people, would ensure regional identities will be strengthened as well.

Of course, I have to be sure if it's even possible to deal with China this way as if the Chinese identity is far too strong, the government far too centralized, the Japanese how no chance in hell to de-facto balkanize China. I am not even sure if what I am proposing is even possible to be done by the government of Japan, rather than the invisible hand.

Edit: So apparently, the Cabinet Intelligence and Research Office and the Public Security Intelligence Agency, aka the CIA, MI6 of Japan, was established in 1952 OTL. When that year comes, a more international and active version of it in this TL should be made, no?
 
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Durabys

A Cheshire Exile
English is not my first language so please correct if I am wrong.

Mini Diet Revision 1.1
Imperial Diet
-[] The Imperial Diet will consist of two houses the House of Representatives and the House of Peers.

-[] The House of Representatives will be elected on the proportion of the population. The House of Peers in addition to all previously established members will be expanded by 20 seats to be occupied exclusively by prominent women under terms to be discussed and facilitated by the Emperor and Government. Every election, the safe seat number shall increase by 1. Once 1/2 of all House of Peers seats work this way the law will be automatically abolished and full gender equality shall be enacted for all House of Peers seats.

-[] The two houses of the Imperial Diet are equal in every way.

-[] The Imperial Diet may trigger elections by voting that they have no confidence in His Imperial Majesty's government.

Comment: 20 seats are the barest minimum acceptable. Should the Lords keep being obstinate give them quiet warning that all house of Peers seats will end up for grabs by women under the equality amendment. Accept and they get to keep their privileges. Deny and his Imperial Majesty will be disinclined to accept interference when women start going to the courts for the particular issue.
 

Alias

Bean Daddy
Moderator
How is threatening the House of Peers supposed to help?
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
So, first time participating in a quest, not really sure if this is how it works...

How is the state of China is this timeline? What kind of economy does it have? How developed is it? How centralized is it's government? How was the Legation Cities annexed, and how do Chinese view it? How does the average Chinese view of Japan? Is the Chinese identity particularly strong, or is it possible for us to do some sly actions to encourage provincial regionalism in exchange for economic prosperity?

I believe the industrialization and prosperity of the rest of Asia, most importantly China, all the way to near Japan standards, is a must to ensure the economic longevity and the overall cohesion of the Co-prosperity Sphere. However, rather than do economic relations with the whole, a region by region way of doing things, helping empower regional identities rather than national ones, making the Japanese closer allies to the local people than their nation, would help curb any chances of power balance shifts as with each region seeing themselves as separate from the whole, they would pursue interests of their "own", rather than interests of their nation, and we should, of course, make sure that it's in everyone's "own" interests to make money with Japan.

I thought of a long term strategy in China, where, either starting with the Guangdong or Manchuria region of China, we will work with the local government to establish special economic zones, specifically geared to helping local companies, workers and the economy in general prosper. Japanese businesses would be encouraged (by promoting the education of foreign languages in the universities of Japan) to use the local dialects/languages (i.e Cantonese) rather than what the lingua franca is for the nation (It's Mandarin for this TL, right?). Focusing our energies of developing the economies in China by province, then moving on to the next one slowly, causing what I call "development lag", will ensure that there will be a disconnect with the identities of the Cantonese living in their newly Japan-tier prosperity and heavily urbanized culture, and then their country bumpkin agricultural Min people in Fujian for example. Underhandily increasing local tensions with hated cultural sub-groups, like the Hakka people, would ensure regional identities will be strengthened as well.

Of course, I have to be sure if it's even possible to deal with China this way as if the Chinese identity is far too strong, the government far too centralized, the Japanese how no chance in hell to de-facto balkanize China. I am not even sure if what I am proposing is even possible to be done by the government of Japan, rather than the invisible hand.

Edit: So apparently, the Cabinet Intelligence and Research Office and the Public Security Intelligence Agency, aka the CIA, MI6 of Japan, was established in 1952 OTL. When that year comes, a more international and active version of it in this TL should be made, no?
Alright, so this is going to be a rather long winded answer.

China by this timeline is starting to be unified, and by design. Zhang Zuolin made sure that the rest of the population who was conquered were given a purpose, to work for a better and more prosperous China whatever happens, and Japan tried their darndest to help him get his way. Due to the lack of a Military Overtake in this timeline, and with a Social Democratic Government in charge all throughout the 40s, there is no real strong will by the Japanese Government to actually balkanize China, they helped with Insulindian Independence, heck, they even helped Zhang Zuolin by invading Southern China and the Legation Cities, built various factories in the Manchurian region (most notably Anshan Iron and Steel, which we are helping expanding RN), and ensured Zhang's happy by giving his government the major coastal cities like Shanghai and Hong Kong after several years of Japanese occupation.

Tokyo knows that China (and don't forget India) is going to be more powerful than Japan in the long term, but they also know that developing such a large country will take time, they also know that a Strong China is going to be fielding large armies that can shore up the defenses of the Co-Prosperity Sphere significantly, India is already doing that. China will also have to take the reigns as well.

In the meantime, there are thoughts within several Academic Circles of Japan to increase Japan's population significantly, perhaps increasing the birth rate or perhaps by attracting more immigrants from all over the CPS, that way, Japan could counter China and India's rise somewhat, and remain relatively influential within the Co-Prosperity Sphere. There is no real will to 'balkanize' China as you might say, because all of Japan's actions throughout the 40s essentially amounts to 'Help Zhang Zuolin Rebuild China', and we were paid off when he agreed to cede claims to Dalian and Taiwan, and also joined the CPS during this timeline's late 40s.

So yeah, that's your answer. It may not be the most satisfactory answer, but that's what my Japan did during the Kaiserreich game, shore up China, build up China, in return for their promise to fight off the Western Barbarians, now in a more literal sense of the word.

Also, PSIA is already established by 1937, just so you know. So we can do some intelligence actions if you want to.
 

Durabys

A Cheshire Exile
Okay. Let's Roleplay and use my RL Leftist credentials to plan this out. Seldom have a chance to play outright self-declared capitalist/counter-revolutionary.
First thing. The population numbers don't count. Period. The industrial and economic output does. Who has the more performing and innovative economy wins this deathmatch. And don't be fooled. This is now a Manichean struggle where one of us will be utterly obliterated ideologically or even outright physically (or both of us, MAD).
We need Turkey and Yemen and unaligned African states, the center, and the south if we want to be relevant post year 2000 ITL. Alongside Madagascar. Best would be to tear Mozambique away from the Comintern (easier said than done, and they probably thought of us doping that too) and secure the Indian Ocean as "Our Lake (TM)". We are currently in a Detente with the Red Block until they build up enough resources from the desolation of the World War to start causing revolutions everywhere. And the world is not static. If the Comintern reforms itself back from Totalism to its Radical or Anarchist roots we are getting REKT. Hard. Why? Because of Europe and the US. The Comintern currently has close to 60 percent of the world's industrial output. Our economic/industrial situation is not as bad as OTL USSR vs OTL US but it is long term bad. So? We need to secure everything south of Sudan and probably go for the unappetizing thing and cause a revolt/counter-revolution in the Kongo-Mozambique strip of land to get ground access to South Africa...before the Comintern reforms itself away from Totalism because otherwise it will be impossible.
 
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Eliar

Well-known member
How is threatening the House of Peers supposed to help?
We don't actually threaten them, on the contrary we promise to not interfere or even quietly influence the courts in their favor IF our amendment goes through.

If not? Then when the new Constitution and its equality amendments pass and the first law suits start going through regarding the House of Peers from feminists/political activists?

The Supreme Court will pick them up and there will be no Imperial/Monarch interference with the decision in favour of the House of Peers.

So! They pass the Amendment and we make certain the Supreme Court does not hear arguments on the particular issue.

If they do not pass the Amendment the we give the Supreme Court the go ahead to actually rule on any relevant law suits down the line.

Trying to be all sneaky and political like here :p
 

Durabys

A Cheshire Exile
We don't actually threaten them, on the contrary we promise to not interfere or even quietly influence the courts in their favor IF our amendment goes through.

If not? Then when the new Constitution and its equality amendments pass and the first law suits start going through regarding the House of Peers from feminists/political activists?

The Supreme Court will pick them up and there will be no Imperial/Monarch interference with the decision in favour of the House of Peers.

So! They pass the Amendment and we make certain the Supreme Court does not hear arguments on the particular issue.

If they do not pass the Amendment the we give the Supreme Court the go ahead to actually rule on any relevant law suits down the line.

Trying to be all sneaky and political like here :p
The end goal is a full parliamentarian monarchy, right? We are basically playing as an Asian Franco-British Union from Reds!verse here, right?
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
I think?

*Points at @Jakarta*

There is the perpetrator! Ask them!
While I do have my ambitions, I don't think I want to interfere in the player's actions too much, so do what you think is best to ensure the Prosperity of the Japanese people.
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
How much can we influence the CPS as Japan?
Oh, save for asking all of the CPS's leaders to bow down and kowtow literally to the Emperor, and heavily influencing elections, quite a bit.

Japan (and to a lesser extent Australia and New Zealand) are the only countries that are developed in the entire faction, we can influence a lot of things, like promote investment, build infrastructure, create trade agreements, support local governmental endeavors.

Japan's not bombed to submission in this timeline, so although we cannot do everything, we do have the budget and the knowhow to influence the CPS significantly.
 

Durabys

A Cheshire Exile
Oh, save for asking all of the CPS's leaders to bow down and kowtow literally to the Emperor, and heavily influencing elections, quite a bit.

Japan (and to a lesser extent Australia and New Zealand) are the only countries that are developed in the entire faction, we can influence a lot of things, like promote investment, build infrastructure, create trade agreements, support local governmental endeavors.

Japan's not bombed to submission in this timeline, so although we cannot do everything, we do have the budget and the knowhow to influence the CPS significantly.
...

And we are basically fighting a reverse Cold War. With the 'Capitalist' Industrialized nations being Socialists this time around. Great. Ugh.

Are there turn options for trying to get most of unaligned Africa and the rest of the Near East on our team, right now? Short term, we need a population advantage to transform into an economic one later on.
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
...

And we are basically fighting a reverse Cold War. With the 'Capitalist' Industrialized nations being Socialists this time around. Great. Ugh.

Are there turn options for trying to get most of unaligned Africa and the rest of the Near East on our team, right now? Short term, we need a population advantage to transform into an economic one later on.
Oh, we did that in turn 1 of the game, it didn't turned out too well.
 

christopher_sni

New member
[X] Mini Diet Revision 1.1 but no threatening the Peers.

Right now we need to work on the post-war economy and defense against the Syndicalists. If we can show the world that our system worked then they will work with us.
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
Alright, so i'm going to take tally on the votes for the current proposals. I'm going to write tomorrow, so make sure you cast your ballots on whichever votes you desire. Remember, the other parties may have differing reactions depending on what you propose, and if taken to the floor, you may need to convince even your own party members should your proposals are unreasonable.

Plan Modernisation and Pursuit of Happiness Revised: 4 Votes, @Atlanta-Georgia, @Alias, @Ryser, @Eliar

Plan Modernisation and Pursuit of Happiness Revised, with the Mini Diet Revision 1.1: 1 Vote, @christopher_sni

I'm going to include the standard mini diet revisions from @Eliar for the first plan. Everyone ok with that?
 
Alright, so i'm going to take tally on the votes for the current proposals. I'm going to write tomorrow, so make sure you cast your ballots on whichever votes you desire. Remember, the other parties may have differing reactions depending on what you propose, and if taken to the floor, you may need to convince even your own party members should your proposals are unreasonable.

Plan Modernisation and Pursuit of Happiness Revised: 4 Votes, @Atlanta-Georgia, @Alias, @Ryser, @Eliar

Plan Modernisation and Pursuit of Happiness Revised, with the Mini Diet Revision 1.1: 1 Vote, @christopher_sni

I'm going to include the standard mini diet revisions from @Eliar for the first plan. Everyone ok with that?
Seems fine by me.

Btw, Japan should make an ARPA equivalent ASAP. I believe the Internationale has better computation tech, no? Well fuck that, that should not be allowed. Fund the shit out of NEC and computer science in our universities, transition (heh) away from parametrons to MOSFETs, establish WAN networks with our allies and make sure that Siberia ain't an administrative nightmare by the 1960s. Who leads the race in date and computers wins the world of tomorrow. Allowing the Internationale to remain ahead of us in these fields would prove disastrous for the future.
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
Seems fine by me.

Btw, Japan should make an ARPA equivalent ASAP. I believe the Internationale has better computation tech, no? Well fuck that, that should not be allowed. Fund the shit out of NEC and computer science in our universities, transition (heh) away from parametrons to MOSFETs, establish WAN networks with our allies and make sure that Siberia ain't an administrative nightmare by the 1960s. Who leads the race in date and computers wins the world of tomorrow. Allowing the Internationale to remain ahead of us in these fields would prove disastrous for the future.
The Japanese PC-1 is actually based on the British EDSAC computer in this timeline, we do invent the Turing Test as well, and we also pioneer in the areas of Radar Tech, but other than that, I am not so fluent in Computer Science to go into the details.
 

Jakarta

Cutest Mod
Moderator
Can it be repeated? Again and again?
It can, but remember, repeated bad rolls will get worse results, and better rolls is no guarantee for instant membership.

You can potentially dig a big hole that you can't get out if you continue doing that in certain regions, might even get the public to question why the gov is spending so much money on such an endeavor, like the Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
Can it be repeated? Again and again?
It's best not to try repeating setbacks and look for other approaches.

[X] Mini Diet Revision 1.1 but no threatening the Peers.

Right now we need to work on the post-war economy and defense against the Syndicalists. If we can show the world that our system worked then they will work with us.
So for defence, I must admit I do not know much of the technical side of things, what equipment and doctrines should be best used is way out of my knowledge base, so I will just make some general and vague grand strategy suggestions for not necessarily winning a hot war, but winning the peace in a cold war. I am only talking about the army and the navy here because any use of the airforce above just limited support means a hot war which as I said, I cannot comment on.

So for the armies of the CPS, which would mostly be based entirely in the mainland Eurasia, looking at the map closely it's obvious that the richest parts of each bloc are quite far away from each other, so most of the effort of militarizing and being well-armed and well trained will go to the poorer undeveloped border states like the Middle East and Africa. Make sure that these nations are stable, have diverse economies and have well-trained well equipped militaries that are not at all like OTL. The armies of the major CPS nations, Japan, China and India, should act as only a tool to put pressure on the Internationale, making them spend more of their economies on their militaries than necessary, as we have more potential to hurt them than for them to hurt us on land, rather than build up forces for an actual effort to invade and liberate Europe and the Americas. A military in being, you could say. Spending less on our the militaries of the core nations, the extra capital should thus be spent funding those border states and winning the economy game.

The naval side of things is an entirely different matter and should be where most of the military expenditure should go. Making sure that at the minimum, the Internationale would have to pull every ship away from the Atlantic to even threaten us in the Pacific, is a must. Due to geography, how lots of the economic centres for both sides are located at the coast and both have large bodies of water separating allies from together the similarities of our situations makes that we and the Internationale will and must have the same overall generalist naval doctrines, rather than specialized ones (Like what the Soviet Union had), as the extreme importance of the navy for both sides means only indecisive carrier fleet slugging matches and submarine M.A.D are the only possible outcomes in a direct naval war if both sides maintain parity. Should the parity be broken, conventional war has effectively been won/lost, due to how much more of a threat navies can be to the core regions than the army can in the frontlines of Eurasia. Thus, most of the military spending should go to the navy is it is the only true and reliable conventional deterrent of war.
 
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