What's new
Frozen in Carbonite

Welcome to FiC! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

RE: Molten Salt Reactors

If I were in charge of a national nuclear power program
But you're not. And there are valid security reasons, hence why such a debate must happen and not handwaved like you did there.

People in charge of these programs agree that the proliferation of nuclear weapons is a problem and that safeguards must be put in place to avoid... unsuitable use of civilian nuclear power. Why? Because — contrary to you and luckily for all of us — these people don't refrain from using their brains.
 
Downloading pdf of scientific books and articles from the latter of these websites is really awful and an immoral act that deprives the poor publishers from their absolutely deserved money considering the major contributions they provide to all scientific publications. It would be very uncool to download stuff for free there. Very. Uncool.

Tell us more about this sort of awful, immoral and uncool behavior.
 
But you're not. And there are valid security reasons, hence why such a debate must happen and not handwaved like you did there.

People in charge of these programs agree that the proliferation of nuclear weapons is a problem and that safeguards must be put in place to avoid... unsuitable use of civilian nuclear power. Why? Because — contrary to you and luckily for all of us — these people don't refrain from using their brains.

Oh noes, we can't have this new technology, somebody somewhere might weaponize it!
(Other than ourselves, of course...)

And when it becomes known how to make a nuclear explosion using only fusion, with no fission stage to start it, what then?
 
But you're not. And there are valid security reasons, hence why such a debate must happen and not handwaved like you did there.

People in charge of these programs agree that the proliferation of nuclear weapons is a problem and that safeguards must be put in place to avoid... unsuitable use of civilian nuclear power. Why? Because — contrary to you and luckily for all of us — these people don't refrain from using their brains.
Yeah, and if we don't we'll likely have a scenario similar to the GURPS setting Reign of Steel's backstory (basically, GURPS's take on Terminator, but the Robots win), where the entire planet had WMDs out of the wazoo. Practically 80+% of the planet, by the time the AIs went 'screw it, we're taking over and genociding humanity', had some sort of WMD (specifically nuclear, biological, and nanotech) in their arsenals ready to kill people.

Basically, the more the nukes proliferate, the more likely that nukes detonate.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, and if we don't we'll likely have a scenario similar to the GURPS setting Steel Reign's backstory (basically, GURPS's take on Terminator, but the Robots win), where the entire planet had WMDs out of the wazoo. Practically 80+% of the planet, by the time the AIs went 'screw it, we're taking over and genociding humanity', had some sort of WMD (specifically nuclear, biological, and nanotech) in their arsenals ready to kill people.

Basically, the more the nukes proliferate, the more likely that nukes detonate.
'likely', according to whom?
 
'likely', according to whom?
Simple statistics. We've been lucky so far, and heavily reliant on at least semi-competent people with near-frozen nerves in positions with their fingers near the nuclear button. Now combine that with the fact that most of the new nuclear powers would rather go for loyalty above all else than any meconium of competence...

... yeah, that's why nuclear proliferation is a topic that tends to have most sides going 'yeah, it should not happen, at all'.
 
Simple statistics. We've been lucky so far, and heavily reliant on at least semi-competent people with near-frozen nerves in positions with their fingers near the nuclear button. Now combine that with the fact that most of the new nuclear powers would rather go for loyalty above all else than any meconium of competence...

... yeah, that's why nuclear proliferation is a topic that tends to have most sides going 'yeah, it should not happen, at all'.
OK, so just your gut hunch.
 
OK, so just your gut hunch.

I think the reasoning is that the more people there are with their "finger on the button", so to speak, the more the chance that at least one of them will turn out to be a lunatic.
And that's not counting the "close calls" where one side mistakenly thought the other side was launching at them - but double-checked it and determined it was a false alarm rather than launching their own.
 
I think the reasoning is that the more people there are with their "finger on the button", so to speak, the more the chance that at least one of them will turn out to be a lunatic.
And that's not counting the "close calls" where one side mistakenly thought the other side was launching at them - but double-checked it and determined it was a false alarm rather than launching their own.
Meh, the Launch on Alert posture has stopped being a thing for a long, long time.
 
I think you are missing the point.
The USA and the USSR got through a few decades of pointing nukes at each other without mishap. But that does not mean everyone would.
Yes, they faced each other and survived because pretty fast, they did away with the launch on alert posture, and the academic work has been done on deterrence theory to make it very unlikely new nuclear powers would go for it. Nuclear weapon management isn't a new thing, and frankly, if you ask nicely, you are pretty sure to even get plans for PAL from another even if they don't like you too much.
 
Yes, they faced each other and survived because pretty fast, they did away with the launch on alert posture, and the academic work has been done on deterrence theory to make it very unlikely new nuclear powers would go for it. Nuclear weapon management isn't a new thing, and frankly, if you ask nicely, you are pretty sure to even get plans for PAL from another even if they don't like you too much.

Well anyway, my own take on non-proliferation is a bit more cynical than Paulo's.
Countries that have nuclear weapons don't like it that other countries out there also do. Because that means they can't use their own nukes without getting nuked back. So the fewer rival nuclear powers out there the better - from the point of existing nuclear powers.

If the high and mighty US of A were still to this day the one and only nation with The Bomb... they would have used it again by now.
 
If I were in charge of a national nuclear power program, my response to people complaining about how the design we were using could produce weapons-grade material would be the meme of the bearded man saying "Yes". Just saying. The betterment of humanity through the advance of technology should not be held hostage to silly people's hoplophobia.

That being said, I was under the impression that Thorium-based power was underdeveloped because that element can't be used to make bombs.
There was a recent documetary what happens to reactors violating none poliferation treaties it had Tom Cruise and aeroplanes and explosions
 
There was a recent documetary what happens to reactors violating none poliferation treaties it had Tom Cruise and aeroplanes and explosions
This happens only if you don't have good enough friends or a large enough military. Pakistan, India, North Korea and Israel are very happy with their position with regards to the NPT.
 
There is also South Africa, or was,

The only people that got their nuclear powerplants bombed are the Iraqis(by Iranians and then Israelis) and the Iranians,(by the Israelis)
 
There is also South Africa, or was,

The only people that got their nuclear powerplants bombed are the Iraqis(by Iranians and then Israelis) and the Iranians,(by the Israelis)

In certain circles it's an "open secret" that the people who helped the South African government get The Bomb were the Israelis.
And the South African nuclear bomb program was scrapped just before the ANC took over - the ANC being more pro-Palestinian.
 
Back
Top Bottom