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UK Politics The Brexit thread (or All -not- quiet on the western front)

Madgunna

Active member
What it wanted all along - UK won't leave. I am 99% convinced that nobody will push UK out of the EU against its own will. No matter how comically it all looks, economically it makes perfect sense.
That sounds a lot like buying a lottery ticket. Right now the EU loses money slowly due to the unstable situation, gambling that pairlament will vote to stay eventually - but the question is how long until the cost outweighs the benefit? Also keep in mind the political capital that is on the line. If the EU waffles for too long, then in the end there will be a decrease in trust in EU promises. They have to show that a red line is truly a red line at some point.

My bet is they already spent all that they wanted to spend back when May asked for an extension. Right now Britain needs to put up or shut up.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
It's happening!

Just kidding. It's totally not happening.

U.K., EU agree to 'great' outline Brexit deal, PM Boris Johnson says
Hours before a summit of all 28 EU national leaders, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said Thursday: "We have one. It's a fair and balanced agreement for the EU and the U.K., and it is testament to our commitment to find solutions."

Prime Minister Boris Johnson tweeted the two sides had struck a "great new deal," and urged U.K. lawmakers to ratify it in a special session on Saturday.
That's a nice announcement. Wonder if it will mean anything more than bravado?
However, immediately complicating matters was Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which didn't waste a minute to say it could not back the outline deal because of provisions for the Irish border.
...
...
"Scotland did not vote for Brexit in any form, and SNP MPs will not vote for Brexit in any form."
...
In a surprising turn of events, Brexit Party Leader Nigel Farage is urging lawmakers to reject the tentative deal, saying he would prefer an extension to the Oct. 31 Brexit deadline to be followed by a national election rather than a parliamentary vote in favour of the new terms.
When even the Brexit party hates your fucking Brexit proposal. With hate coming from every other party, all that BoJo can count on is votes from his own party... maybe.
 

Balerion

Well-known member
And parliament has stamped it's feet and demanded another extension. Imagine if the Greek legislature declared that it was going to suspend all debt payments because they thought they were "odious"
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
Pretty sure that the other EU nations will not look on the request seriously either. As it was scheduled, parliament was forcing the extension vote before even considering the proposal itself.

EU: "Will this work? Y/N"
UK: "Extension."
EU: "Is that a no?"
UK: "Just give us more time to prepare a vote." *members of most parties make public statements saying they will never sign*
EU: "Is it too long? Do you need this time to read the proposal?"
UK: "No, we read it already, and made up our minds. We just refuse to hold a vote."
EU: "We will... consider... your extension request."

Brexit may mean Brexit, but Brexit also appears to be a severe form of mental retardation. Strangely enough, BoJo might actually be the sane one in parliament right now since another referendum is off the table and no one will agree to any proposal where the British Empire rises again with the EU as vassals. Crashing out is the more rational outcome.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
What is even happening I dont know no more,,,
"Fuck Superman. All hail Bizarro!"

Technically, the vote was to delay until legislation could be drafted and voted upon that the UK would actually enact the Brexit plan if they choose to accept the plan at a later date. Because saying "Yes, we agree with this proposal and accept." apparently does not mean that they will actually do the thing (as of this particular sitting of parliament).

Yes, they are refusing to vote until they vote to accept the vote as being valid with another set of legislation that they will draft and vote upon. At some point in time. In the future. After an extension, because we all know how hard it is to make legislation that says "if we vote on this thing we actually mean it, and we will follow through with our votes".

If that seems complicated, it is only because it is some horseshit hastily thought up to do nothing but delay making a decision.
 

Eliar

Well-known member
"Fuck Superman. All hail Bizarro!"

Technically, the vote was to delay until legislation could be drafted and voted upon that the UK would actually enact the Brexit plan if they choose to accept the plan at a later date. Because saying "Yes, we agree with this proposal and accept." apparently does not mean that they will actually do the thing (as of this particular sitting of parliament).

Yes, they are refusing to vote until they vote to accept the vote as being valid with another set of legislation that they will draft and vote upon. At some point in time. In the future. After an extension, because we all know how hard it is to make legislation that says "if we vote on this thing we actually mean it, and we will follow through with our votes".

If that seems complicated, it is only because it is some horseshit hastily thought up to do nothing but delay making a decision.
*Blinks*

So the UK Parliament has actually evolved to a closed loop where every vote will result in needs for more votes in the future.

I wonder if we can harness that as an energy source...
 

Alias

Bean Daddy
Moderator
What is the rationale for not voting on this latest Brexit proposal?
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
What is the rationale for not voting on this latest Brexit proposal?
As far as anyone can tell, "You can't make me!" rules apply.

Parliament was called in for a special session to give a final and definitive yes or no vote, either accept the deal or crash out. But some MPs decided to appropriate that session for a second vote just to disrupt that vote and buy more time for... something(?).

Over the last few years it has become clear that there is no (strong) political will to reverse the referendum, or to hold a second referendum on the topic. No one also want to take the blame for accepting a deal that does not favor the UK. Except that there is absolutely no chance that every other country in the EU will take a beating just to please the parliamentarians, so instead they keep getting only offers that will make them look bad. Hence all the rejections and delays.

I don't think there is an end goal for any of this. Just panic that they will be leaving the EU soon one way or the other, and that there is no course that looks to make them come out looking good. Maybe a forlorn hope that the EU will take pity on them and cut a better deal (not happening), or that they can at least place the blame on BoJo for everything.

Originally they were only going to vote for an extra day to review the proposal, but it somehow ended up becoming "Uh... get us an extension so we can... do... a thing. Um, vote! Yes, we can vote to make the upcoming vote binding if we only have a few more weeks. Or months".

As far as anything I have seen or heard at least. Sheer panic with a touch of stubbornness to not be forced into making a final decision.
 

t-dugong

The cutest creature of the seven seas, Esq.
Well, it seems like the Parliament learned a form of filibustering (or whatever is appropriate). Sigh.
 

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