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The Ever Increasing And Well Deserved Social Isolation of Right Wingers

Angry_American said:
First: If there is a surplus of workers already in the country, why exactly should more people be brought in? Especially for labor such as the ever-argued agriculture?
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Because there isn't. We have a record setting 6.8 million job surplus, mainly in sectors where the average America does not want to work. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/job-offers

Second: How is that weak? Seriously, how is a specialized (federal) government that doesn't try and run everything for the states weak?
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Governments as small as possible are more easily bought and sold, more prone to localized corruption, and more difficult to address.
 
Rodyle said:
The correct answer is... about 150k. Over 12 years.


Well the immigrant nation thing is kind of the whole mission statement.


Ever heard of the articles of confederation?
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150k. Thats insane. That shows that mexicos government is incapable of protecting its citizens.
 
Perhaps you missed the part where I say that they should have the power to do those jobs? Defense, international relations, interstate commerce, a few other things. I'd even be happy with an amendment for the National Parks, but I don't like how they handle internal state things like infrastructure aside from the highways.

Chessia said:
Because there isn't. We have a record setting 6.8 million job surplus, mainly in sectors where the average America does not want to work. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/job-offers
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Don't want to work? Or can't work because illegal labor is just so much more competitive? I understand why its done, in the effort to protect American workers the government made it harder and more expensive to hire and fire legally, which had the unintended consequence of making it almost not worth it to hire anyone legally. The
If there is something there that proves that Americans don't want to do those jobs, I can't find it since I'm on mobile. A quote would be nice.
 
Angry_American said:
Perhaps you missed the part where I say that they should have the power to do those jobs? Defense, international relations, interstate commerce, a few other things. I'd even be happy with an amendment for the National Parks, but I don't like how they handle internal state things like infrastructure aside from the highways.
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Those all require a very large government to operate.



Don't want to work? Or can't work because illegal labor is just so much more competitive? I understand why its done, in the effort to protect American workers the government made it harder and more expensive to hire and fire legally, which had the unintended consequence of making it almost not worth it to hire anyone legally. The
If there is something there that proves that Americans don't want to do those jobs, I can't find it since I'm on mobile. A quote would be nice.
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It's not that the don't want to work period, it's that they won't work those specific kinds of jobs because it's too hard.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...rgias-immigration-law-backfires/#3dc8652492aa
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworkers/
 
Here's the thing that for all the Twitter crowing of "owning the chuds!", what matters is voting day, and in the run up to 2015, everyone thought Milliband was going to win, because "what kind of decent person would vote tory? Well..."

And this is a pattern that has repeated again, and again, and again, and again, and again. And even in Scandinavia, what would be considered "left", you have governments making substantial moves to the right. Maybe something else is happening, maybe the liberal world order is crumbling at the seams as globalisation continues to rust and corrode. You know, the liberal world order that makes things like large scale peaceable immigration possible and promotes openness. That's going to be gone soon.
 
Chessia said:
Those all require a very large government to operate.

It's not that the don't want to work period, it's that they won't work those specific kinds of jobs because it's too hard.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...rgias-immigration-law-backfires/#3dc8652492aa
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworkers/
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Not as big as what we have now, since I think that the likes of social security and Medicare \Medicaid were poorly thought out and implemented. Or mistakes.

And golly gee, ruthless exploitation of immigrants in the finest traditions of the gilded age. Yes its somewhat skilled labor, but skills can be trained. Hand tossing pizza crusts is also a skill, and I could do that inside a week of working part time! I think that they don't WANT to try and deal with Americans who *gasp* need to be trained, provided any sort of benefits, paid minimum wage at worst... At best the good ones get $15-20 an hour! Most get even less than that!
If you've ever watched something like Dirty Jobs, then you'd know that Americans will do some of the most brutal and nasty jobs. The thing is, they get benefits out of their labor and are protected from the worse abuses, and can get assistance when they need it.

I do concur that the US immigration policy needs to be revamped and cut down though, as the current setup is insulting to the people who came through legally.
 
Rodyle said:
I mean I doubt you're going to see anyone here arguing that the Liberal World Order isn't crumbling
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My point was that the far right growth is largely symptomatic of the LWO giving way to nationalism and isolationism. Trump himself strikes me as not being much of a GRAB ALL THE CLAY type like Hitler was, granted Clay Grabbing isn't much of a thing anymore for various reasons.

And my other point was that "lol we're owning the chuds!" in lieu of actual election campaigns has repeatedly bit the left in the ass.
 
The collapse of the Liberal center and the general alienation of the youth by the right (not complete alienation obviously, because chuds, but still) opens the way for other interests
 
Angry_American said:
Not as big as what we have now, since I think that the likes of social security and Medicare \Medicaid were poorly thought out and implemented. Or mistakes.
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If you're wanting to fix social security and medicare or midicaid you require an expansion of government power not a lessening.

And golly gee, ruthless exploitation of immigrants in the finest traditions of the gilded age. Yes its somewhat skilled labor, but skills can be trained. Hand tossing pizza crusts is also a skill, and I could do that inside a week of working part time! I think that they don't WANT to try and deal with Americans who *gasp* need to be trained, provided any sort of benefits, paid minimum wage at worst... At best the good ones get $15-20 an hour! Most get even less than that!
If you've ever watched something like Dirty Jobs, then you'd know that Americans will do some of the most brutal and nasty jobs. The thing is, they get benefits out of their labor and are protected from the worse abuses, and can get assistance when they need it.

I do concur that the US immigration policy needs to be revamped and cut down though, as the current setup is insulting to the people who came through legally.
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Again you're not making an argument for limiting illegal immigration you're making an argument to cut immigration enforcement and most border control and divert it to immigration processing to make coming in quicker while maintaining the same or better security checks. But that would require you be able to extrapolate what your policy actual means in a consistent manner and not subscribing to the idiotic axiom "government bad, rargh".
 
Vyor said:
Citation please.



Stop calling me a fucking racist.



An extreme minority of people harmed, on mass I believe repub policies will help more people than it harms.

Utilitarianism.



You know what, fuck you bitches.
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Don't call members bitches.

Chessia said:
Yes, legally they do.

Yes, like pretending to not be a racist bigot.


No you don't, you're still supporting child concentration camps expressly created for the purposes of deterring immigration period.
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Do not accuse members of being racist bigots.
 
To get us back on topic, there is one place where this will not work. One place where you are free to truly express your opinions without sanction. One place where you can indulge in your beliefs that is as sacrosanct as a confessional: The voting booth, which matters far more than almost anything else on the planet. And i bet you a lot of people will toe the line publicly, but will mark down their true feelings on that voting card.
 
Chessia said:
If you're wanting to fix social security and medicare or midicaid you require an expansion of government power not a lessening.


Again you're not making an argument for limiting illegal immigration you're making an argument to cut immigration enforcement and most border control and divert it to immigration processing to make coming in quicker while maintaining the same or better security checks. But that would require you be able to extrapolate what your policy actual means in a consistent manner and not subscribing to the idiotic axiom "government bad, rargh".
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I won't mince my words then. They were a mistake, that NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. I don't think that those entities should have been made ever. I feel the same way about the education department.

So what I'm reading is that instead of making the jobs more attractive, safer, better paying... We need to bring in people with lower standards to do them. A real class act you are.
 
Angry_American said:
I won't mince my words then. They were a mistake, that NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. I don't think that those entities should have been made ever. I feel the same way about the education department.

So what I'm reading is that instead of making the jobs more attractive, safer, better paying... We need to bring in people with lower standards to do them. A real class act you are.
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Let me be blunt. Americans aren't going to take the farm jobs. Because they involve not only backbreaking labor in the hot sun, but also the utter and complete inability to have a long term residence. You'd be giving up your right to vote among other things in order to become a migrant laborer because you won't spend enough time in any one place for it to count. The american dream of home ownership will be categorically out of your reach, you will have no say in where your children gp to school, you will have no chance to build an attachment to a community, no constant church for pastoral advice, etc... Americans will not become migrant laborers. We've tested that. They offered lawyer-class wages and still the produce rotted in the fields if there weren't illegals picking it.
 
Why do you assume that it's a permanent situation? I've worked three different jobs in three years, and while that's not ideal, it is entirely possible to 'move up' to better jobs that don't require as much movement.
Also,
Migrants, who work in the harvest season, who spend what? Six to eight months living in one place? Absentee ballots exist, there are already mobile communities that do the migrant work that literally travel with the seasons as crops ripen farther north before driving back south again for the winter.

Ravan said:
We've tested that. They offered lawyer-class wages and still the produce rotted in the fields if there weren't illegals picking it.
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When, where, and with what other benefits?
 
Angry_American said:
Why do you assume that it's a permanent situation? I've worked three different jobs in three years, and while that's not ideal, it is entirely possible to 'move up' to better jobs that don't require as much movement.
Also,
Migrants, who work in the harvest season, who spend what? Six to eight months living in one place? Absentee ballots exist, there are already mobile communities that do the migrant work that literally travel with the seasons as crops ripen farther north before driving back south again for the winter.



When, where, and with what other benefits?
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You don't get benefits in the US as a short term contractor in any industry, period.

Georgia passed a harsh anti-illegal immigrant law, then watched as $140,000,000 worth of produce rotted in the fields because Americans weren't willing to uproot themselves from all over the nation to come and do backbreaking labor for a single season Nd then be unemployed again, even when being offered $40 per hour. (Some illegals can make up to 20, based on volume btw, if you think that migrants are universally exploited)
 
Peebles said:
Yes, its a lot of cases of people not getting dates with people when they find out they are conservative, and they they claim that them being lonely is harassment.

Did YOU read the OP?
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Rodyle said:
More generally:
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Cause that's totally what it says there.
A 31-year-old female administration official told Politico in June that she is often met with criticism on dating apps.

"You do the small talk thing, and you have a very good conversation, and then they might say, 'You didn't vote for Trump, right?'" she said. "As soon as I say, 'Of course I did,' it just devolves into all-caps 'HOW COULD YOU BE SUCH A RACIST AND A BIGOT?' And 'You're going to take away your own birth control.'"

A female Trump staffer told Fox News she was berated for posing with the American flag.

"Guys say, 'Are you one of those Trumpies?' It's ridiculous," the staffer said. "How did posing with the American flag turn me into a country-hating loser?"

A senior staffer on Capitol Hill said she was harassed on so many dating sites that she ends up dating other conservatives through mutual friends.
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Seriously, there's more than one thing linked in the OP
 
Peebles said:
Being criticized online also isn't harassment.
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It is when it's a private account that isn't related to their job.

Like, if this was twitter I'd agree with you.

But a dating app? I would hope they aren't broadcasting where they work there. Blue checkmarks on twitter? Ya, go ahead and yell at them. A dating app? Not so much.
(and I hope that with what you're saying now you've never claimed that Antita and her ilk were harrased over twitter...)
 
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