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The FiC News & Politics Improvement Committee

Quit trying to 'win'


Cultural genocide is such a loaded term. Any kind of cultural shift can be labeled as a cultural genocide if you squint & tilt your head hard enough.

You guys should move away from the buzzwords. If your real objection is that genocide is bad because people die, fair enough, but I'm 99% certain that's not Morphile's aim when cultural genocide gets mentioned.

You guys can quibble about the semantics of a word all week (as you have been) or you can decide to use other plain language to continue this discussion and actually try to understand each other. RIght now it looks like a dumb exercise in pedantry. Internet points over this nonsense is not worth wasting hours of your time.
*Dust off hands*
 
All I've done is ask @Morphile to clarify his stance, I do not know that Morphile is advocating violence and it seems you're making an assumption that he is.
Yes because it's obvious.
I'm presenting the notion that @Morphile may not belive mass killings are necessary to achieve his goal and he may be against Israel going about it in this way.

Now you can say what Morphile wants is impossible without mass scale violence, and you may be right, but if so Morphile is just naive or at worst stupid and you can edciate him on why what he wants to achieve is impossible without violence
You cannot educate a bad faith actor. Engagement is what they want because it grants validation. By the same token, asking him to clarify is obviously insane because he's just going to say "of course I don't support it (just everything that would require it)"
 
>claim somebody made an argument they never made
>spend 5 post in the spin zone to justify that claim
>complain about bad faith actors

tenor.gif
 
>claim somebody made an argument they never made
>spend 5 post in the spin zone to justify that claim
>complain about bad faith actors

tenor.gif

Some people's lives are so wrapped up in their online persona that they feel they can't afford to loose.
 
@Morphile do you condone the killing of a lot of people and torturing a lot of others to achieve the goal of eradicating the Palestinian culture?
I think it would actually be extremely counterproductive, given that the main thing I want gone is the martyrdom element of the culture. A major reason the situation has gotten so bad is that the Palestinians use every death they already receive from Israel's defense force to drive more people towards violent riots and terrorism. It's not a complete replacement I'm wanting, but rather the specific things driving the cycle of violence from their end. Martyrdom cultures generate really nasty feedback loops, and the only killing that works to get rid of it is complete eradication of the population as a distinct ethnicity. Which is just regular genocide.

It's less eradicating the Palestinian culture outright and more forcing it to become a different culture, which, given the use of cultural genocide to refer to things as specific as forcing a common language with the ruling state (I've been jumped on over this regarding Catalan), still qualifies for the terminology.
 
You cannot educate a bad faith actor.
Wait so do you think Morphile wants to genocide (the mass murder kind) the Palestinian people or do you think he's acting in bad faith?
 
How would you define a bad faith actor?

I think what Rodimus Maximus is (badly) trying to say is that Morphile does believe that they should be exterminated, but is lying so as to not get banned.

I don't agree with the Rodster, but I'm attempting to translate Righteous Fury (capitalization intended) Into English.
 
I've explained how I would define Morphile and indeed most right-wingers who are "just looking to debate/ask questions" constitute bad faith actors. You are free to see my previous writings on the subject.
Rodyle lets skip the song and dance, you're not just asking me to look up your post history and dig through it to search for an unknown number of posters in an unknown number of threads that all at least need to be skimmed to obtain the needed context to properly interprete your contextual writings. You're also asking the same of everyone else whose following this very relevant thread. So could you at least show them some courtesy and clarify your language when we've obviously encountered a communications break down?

I don't want to project these frustrations upon you Rodyle, but it seems like everytime I ask an individual who could be described as a more authoritarian kind of leftist to explain their language in concise terms they or at least our discussion breaksdown.

This has happened here, on SB, SV, Facebook, youtube, and in real life. It truly seems like these people are coming from an emotional place and phrases like bad faith and nazi mean "things and people I don't like or that upset/offend me for any number of reasons" and they either don't want to admit that or don't realize it and ergo can't articulate what those words mean.

Again I'm not saying this about you Roydle, but this just seems to keep happening and it's frustrating because I'm honestly trying to have a productive diolage with this political branch of the tree, like I've done with the most extream Christians, Conservatives, Libertarians and Anarchists.

So again I'll ask. Roydle if you had to write a "rule 6. No bad faith debating," how would you word it so 13 year olds who stumble on this site and haven't even heard of debate edicate, much less the concept of bad faith could continue on to post fully comprehending the acceptable limts of behavior on this site.
 
As I have said before, the goal of right-wingers isn't debate as such. It is normalization. They want to have their beliefs treated as acceptable and for this mere participation in debate is enough for them. This is why it is wildly irresponsible whenever mass media treats climate change deniers as legitimate for example. By the same token, online right-wingers like Morphile simply seek to be allowed in. They want to poison communities by spreading right wing propaganda and treating them as legitimate participants allows them to do this.

As for writing rules on bad faith debate, I consider this counterproductive because you can't create a hard-and-fast standard. Attempting to just creates Whitehall.

There is only one proper way to deal with fascists, and that's the ban them the moment they rear their head. Because anything else allows them to take root.

As an addendum this is why your belief that you can cater to "both sides" is false. The right seek to quite literally murder, for example, Trans people and Palestinians. They do not wish to coexist, they wish to exterminate. as a result the latter groups have no choice but to respond in kind. So you have to pick which one you want to be part of your community: the oppressed minority groups, or the reactionary ideologues that want to murder them.
 
@Morphile said he doesn't want to kill the Palestinians though, even if he secretly does want them dead, and has the agenda of normalization you've prescribed to him he isn't succeeding at it.
 
The 'normalization' conspiracy only makes sense if we were on a mass media website, like Reddit, Facebook or Twitter. This is a (no offense) podunk forum with ~400 members, 10% of which are active on a weekly basis, a good chunk of which just bitch about Spacebattles.
 
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The problem is, with how convoluted definitions of "fascist" can get, we may very well end up with an R/socialism esque environment where the mods get ludicrously ban happy.
 
The 'normalization' conspiracy only makes sense if we were on a mass media website, like Reddit, Facebook or Twitter. This is a (no offense) podunk forum with ~400 members, 10% of which are active on a weekly basis, a good chunk of which just bitch about Spacebattles.

Now now, there are some of us that post regularly that actually support Spacebattles.
 
Trump says he doesn't have a problem with minorities. Do you believe that?
Irrelevant Rodyle, Trump implemented a travel ban and called it the Muslim ban. We have 70 years of his life as a public figure to examine plus years as POTUS to contradict his words.

@Morphile can't push a progenocide agenda on Fic while he insists he doesn't support violence perpetrated on the Palestinians, even if he does secretly want them all dead.
 
Politics poisons everything. I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. The worst is the kind being peddled here. It says to us in effect that we don't have free will, that we can't know what is right or wrong.

If I wanted to be a reflection of Rodyle, I would say we should ban people like her because what she's doing is trying to control the conversation by lying, shaming, consensus making, and trying to subvert authority to her own interest. We need to stop that kind of behavior in its tracks and the only way to do it is by banning leftist the moment they reveal themselves as the wolf in sheep's clothing they actually are. The rest of you are sheep after all and I'm the shepherd that needs to protect the flock and it's to your doom, and society's detriment, if you don't listen to me.

But I'm not going to do that. I believe that the rest of you shouldn't care about my politics in the same sense that you shouldn't care about my sexuality. It has nothing to do with you and it shouldn't have anything to do with you. Just make sure you're enjoying yourselves, otherwise there's no point. If you are really trying to change the world by arguing on the internet, it's your mistake if you think FiC is the place to do it.
 
Trump says he doesn't have a problem with minorities. Do you believe that?
So you're going to the level of flatly saying my words are lies? Have you any backup for this? Do you have anything actively pointing towards me wanting Palestinians dead? Can you not comprehend the position of being against Palestine because of its history of violence, and nothing else? If I wanted anything resembling a proper genocide of Palestinians, there's a chunk of Jordan's population that'd have to go. If I wanted their kind of culture completely gone, that's huge swaths of the Middle East because they don't stand out much there, either. Palestine isn't all that special. The complete obliteration of it would have a negligible effect on global human diversity.

All your defense of Palestine has been the precise sort of apologism that let Nazi Germany get so far as to invade Poland. Had the treaty actually been upheld, they would never have the military capacity needed to wage World War Two. But because the treaty was considered far too harsh, the Germans were given a lot of leeway. Because of how negatively you view Israel, you're giving the Palestinians a huge amount of leeway. Hamas only stopped calling for outright extermination of Jews last year, and continues to refuse to recognize Israel as a country. Palestinian leaders genuinely teach children to murder Jews. That second article has more links (a lot more. It cascades outwards through the genocidal insanity). It's solely a matter of principal that keeps me preferring forced cultural changes over genuine genocide. That's it, they really have gone that far. Two thirds of their population support knife attacks against Jews. To be blunt, if you were to kill solely the active supporters of terrorist activity aimed for genocide, you'd still be wiping out the considerable majority of the Palestinian population. That is how batshit insane they have gotten. If you have any genuine contrary evidence, please share it with me.
 
Irrelevant Rodyle, Trump implemented a travel ban and called it the Muslim ban. We have 70 years of his life as a public figure to examine plus years as POTUS to contradict his words.

@Morphile can't push a progenocide agenda on Fic while he insists he doesn't support violence perpetrated on the Palestinians, even if he does secretly want them all dead.
Except we also have plenty of evidence that he does want them dead, like him defending Israel every time it kills them. Him going on enormous tirades about how they are all evil and need to be slaughtered en masse and the remainder assimilated then tacking on "but I don't support genocide" at the end does not, in fact, mean he doesn't support genocide unless you are being willfully obtuse.

Like I have the likes of Morphile and Screen blocked so unless I get bored and unfold their posts it doesn't directly affect me, but this is about improvement, and you improve things by banning people who defend genocide.
 
like him defending Israel every time it kills them.
Well Isreal at least claims they act in self defense, even if that's a complete and utter lie it's very possible that Morphile is just gullible or even stupid.

For whatever reason I think you tend to assume malice when misunderstanding, coincidence, or as mentioned above even stupidity are all valid interpretations.
 
Him going on enormous tirades about how they are all evil and need to be slaughtered en masse
Find me this qoute and I'll issue Morphile 2 points on the spot.
 
This is the exact same "dig through a billion posts now" complaint you just got mad at me over.
No I'm asking you to stop complaining about Morphile's rule breaking behavior and present it so I can infract him.

This entire conversation is irrelevant if the conservative elements you speak of are already advicating for the murder of innocents.That's already crossing the line so you don't have to convince me to lower the bar.
 
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