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Uncle Rubick's Russian military media and news thread.

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
ZAPAD-21

WHAT TO EXPECT?


On the sidenote: yesterday in Poland finnaly some old security consultant told on TV to the astonishement of all gathered that Zapad-21 is not some peparation to the dastard invasion of Poland anf prelude to extermination of freedom loving Westerners but another cyclical military exercises.
It took them 7 years to figure that out, but still.
Will the ruling PiS see the difference? 😂
 

Wakko

Well-known member
On the sidenote: yesterday in Poland finnaly some old security consultant told on TV to the astonishement of all gathered that Zapad-21 is not some peparation to the dastard invasion of Poland anf prelude to extermination of freedom loving Westerners but another cyclical military exercises.
Of course it's not a prelude to the invasion of Poland. Any Ukrainian 'military expert' will tell you that it's preparation for the invasion of Ukraine! :ROFLMAO:
 

Paulo Brito

Well-known member
Author
ZAPAD-21

WHAT TO EXPECT?


On the sidenote: yesterday in Poland finnaly some old security consultant told on TV to the astonishement of all gathered that Zapad-21 is not some peparation to the dastard invasion of Poland anf prelude to extermination of freedom loving Westerners but another cyclical military exercises.
It took them 7 years to figure that out, but still.
I bet that good old ATP in the Sietch is going to still believe in the invasion.
 

Paulo Brito

Well-known member
Author
TBH, Russia hasn't exactly been a friendly neighbour then or now.
To be honest, also, every time Poland has the upper hand is a bitch too.
 

<Reaper>666

Well-known member
To be honest, also, every time Poland has the upper hand is a bitch too.
We traditionally were sacking Kievian Russia when state coffers were empty . . .
But that was Germans fault!

I bet that good old ATP in the Sietch is going to still believe in the invasion.

Of course.
Planning attack when you do not perform operational extension of reserves and whole support infrastructure


Of course it's not a prelude to the invasion of Poland. Any Ukrainian 'military expert' will tell you that it's preparation for the invasion of Ukraine! :ROFLMAO:
Meanwhile on the border belt . . .

 
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Rubick

Well-known member
@Khathi It's been written that the original Nona-M was supposed to be a recoilless rifle and a mortar hybrid. But from one picture of the thing that's floating on the net it doesn't seem to be any different in the back then the Nona-M1 which doesn't have indirect fire capability.

So I take it Nona-M having indirect fire capability was horseshit ?


Air assault during zapad.
















 
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<Reaper>666

Well-known member
@Khathi It's been written that the original Nona-M was supposed to be a recoilless rifle and a mortar hybrid. But from one picture of the thing that's floating on the net it doesn't seem to be any different in the back then the Nona-M1 which doesn't have indirect fire capability.

So I take it Nona-M having indirect fire capability was horseshit ?


Air assault during zapad.
















Closer and closer to the aero-mech concept of old.
 

Rubick

Well-known member
Closer and closer to the aero-mech concept of old.
Clarify ?

As far as air assault ? It honestly really is very limited besides in COIN warfare. And limited to next to irrelevant as reinforcement for flanks or front depending of course on what you can lift and in what numbers. In deep penetrations It has pretty much the same disadvantage as Airborne assault if not more so since at the heights they'd be flying they would be targeted by the entire spectrum of IADS and what not. The foot print and landing zone required even for a battalion never mind if said battalion is with amour is also larger then that for the airborne And it just scales worse from there.


Anyway


The first of the series of Razbeg-1 cheap 250 kg small-sized military optical reconnaissance satellite with resolution of sub 1 meter has been finally placed into orbit.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I wonder whether the US move with Australia will make Russia consider actually selling SSN to other countries, rather than the lending stuff they did with India. The taboo is broken and I'm pretty sure there would be some countries interested for a couple Akula to their navies.
 

Inquisitor Solarion

Well-known member
I wonder whether the US move with Australia will make Russia consider actually selling SSN to other countries, rather than the lending stuff they did with India. The taboo is broken and I'm pretty sure there would be some countries interested for a couple Akula to their navies.
Only if they can be trusted not to let Americans on board....

I don't think the Indians can be though. I recall there was some ruckus over that.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Only if they can be trusted not to let Americans on board....

I don't think the Indians can be though. I recall there was some ruckus over that.
The Indian submarine was directly taken from the Russian forces, I'm talking here about export models, so their performance would be less problematic if it leaked.
 

Paulo Brito

Well-known member
Author
If nuclear-powered warships start to be on the market, things are going to be 'interesting'. As in - people not trained / without experience with nuclear reactors doing the maintenance... brrr.
 

Rubick

Well-known member
I wonder whether the US move with Australia will make Russia consider actually selling SSN to other countries, rather than the lending stuff they did with India. The taboo is broken and I'm pretty sure there would be some countries interested for a couple Akula to their navies.

Possible. But I honestly don't see much cliental for that. Maybe Korea or Hindu's other then that ....who has the money or need for them that is not locked into NATO.

Thank Biden for this new policy.
I doubt he'd remember.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
I wonder whether the US move with Australia will make Russia consider actually selling SSN to other countries, rather than the lending stuff they did with India. The taboo is broken and I'm pretty sure there would be some countries interested for a couple Akula to their navies.
I think Russian nuclear submarine building capacity is full with domestic orders for the next 20+ years. Maybe they could overhaul and sell older submarines as new Yasen-Ms come into service, but the repair yards seem to be even worse off.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I think Russian nuclear submarine building capacity is full with domestic orders for the next 20+ years. Maybe they could overhaul and sell older submarines as new Yasen-Ms come into service, but the repair yards seem to be even worse off.
Hmm, then I guess China will fill this market then.
 

<Reaper>666

Well-known member
Hmm, then I guess China will fill this market then.
I doubt that - you do not want proxies to become to independent and too strong. Aside the three super powers and 4-5 powers nuclear submarines are useless for the rest are waste of scare defense budget.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I doubt that - you do not want proxies to become to independent and too strong. Aside the three super powers and 4-5 powers nuclear submarines are useless for the rest are waste of scare defense budget.
SSN don't really make proxies too independent when they're utterly needing you to do the maintenance of highly complex equipment like this. Hell, China could even have some engineers of the PLAN inside the subs they "sell" for the nuclear jobs.
 

<Reaper>666

Well-known member
SSN don't really make proxies too independent when they're utterly needing you to do the maintenance of highly complex equipment like this. Hell, China could even have some engineers of the PLAN inside the subs they "sell" for the nuclear jobs.
We both know it does not work like that. Such practice shortens time of technological difussion. In long term, you are building future enemy. Plus you are handing out nuclear technology, and we know into what it can be used.
Also whole supply chain for even operating one such vessel and in truth you would need 2-3 at minimum to keep up meaningful operational capability. Modern conventional sub with LACM and AShM capability is cheaper in long run than nuclear one.
Unless you have a global ambitions, but here as I have said aside global superpowers and few regional actually can afford such projection of power capacity. For the rest, conventional subs, modern and in numbers are more thatn sufficient for defense and power projection in their actual neibourhood.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
We both know it does not work like that. Such practice shortens time of technological difussion. In long term, you are building future enemy. Plus you are handing out nuclear technology, and we know into what it can be used.
Also whole supply chain for even operating one such vessel and in truth you would need 2-3 at minimum to keep up meaningful operational capability. Modern conventional sub with LACM and AShM capability is cheaper in long run than nuclear one.
Unless you have a global ambitions, but here as I have said aside global superpowers and few regional actually can afford such projection of power capacity. For the rest, conventional subs, modern and in numbers are more thatn sufficient for defense and power projection in their actual neibourhood.
Dunno, in this case, messing the situation up can be a goal in and of itself, especially when China is a lot less centred around the sealanes than the US, so SSN proliferation would be a much bigger issue for their opponent than it would be for them, further reducing the effective size of the anglo-alliance navy when the war starts by forcing them to have many assets kept aside to protect their own lines while China wouldn't have nearly such a problem.
 

Diablo21

Active member
SSN don't really make proxies too independent when they're utterly needing you to do the maintenance of highly complex equipment like this. Hell, China could even have some engineers of the PLAN inside the subs they "sell" for the nuclear jobs.
Maybe someone like Pakistan. I don't see many African nations aside from possibly Egypt or South Africa have any desire or need for nuclear powered submarines. The only reason I mention South Africa is due to Koeberg Nuclear Power Station, so they do have an education and training pipeline and support services in place.

A country like the Philippines would probably buy German or ROK conventional powered submarines. Vietnam dislikes China. The French and Yankees may come and go, but China will always be there. Spngapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and Malaysia don't do much venturing outside of their immediate areas.

There's also the possibility that South Korea or Japan could invest in nuclear powered boats, but they both have enough in house resources that they could do their own designs. I wouldn't be surprised if the companies who have built Japanese submarines don't already have some design word and limited R&D already done but haven't publicly made it known due to Japanese issues with nuclear power.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Maybe someone like Pakistan. I don't see many African nations aside from possibly Egypt or South Africa have any desire or need for nuclear powered submarines. The only reason I mention South Africa is due to Koeberg Nuclear Power Station, so they do have an education and training pipeline and support services in place.

A country like the Philippines would probably buy German or ROK conventional powered submarines. Vietnam dislikes China. The French and Yankees may come and go, but China will always be there. Spngapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and Malaysia don't do much venturing outside of their immediate areas.

There's also the possibility that South Korea or Japan could invest in nuclear powered boats, but they both have enough in house resources that they could do their own designs. I wouldn't be surprised if the companies who have built Japanese submarines don't already have some design word and limited R&D already done but haven't publicly made it known due to Japanese issues with nuclear power.
Pakistan is the obvious candidate, if only to keep India really busy when the war starts (or to pressure it to remain neutral). SA and Egypt are likely customers as well, and maybe Algeria as they're modernizing their forces and it could make for a nice white elephant. Brazil comes to mind as they actually worked on a SSN with the French, but the Frogs didn't share any nuclear know-how, just the rest of the stuff. For the gigatroll move, Beijing could give for free a few subs with cruise missiles to Argentina and pay for the maintenance as long as they remember to whom do the Malvinas belong once the fight starts in earnest.

Simply put, disseminating SSN is a wonderful way of spreading chaos on the seas and the anglo alliance has a shitload more to lose than China in such a situation. Plus, considering everyone is openly planning World War III, the post-war situation will not really be much of a bother, since either China loses and the SSN are no longer its problem or it wins and it can come and take back the toys under threat of annihilation as the undisputed hegemon.

So, yeah, big, big can of worms opened.
 
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