What form of Goverment would be formed ??

[Aetherius]

Ok, I was browsing some ISOT an ISEKAI Threads in SB.com and SV.com, when i realised something....
In none of those Threads, the OP never mentioned forming a sort of Goverment from those who got transported away.

Ok, now lets say a group made out of the various Members of SB, SV, SD.net and FIC are transported away....
It really doesn´t matter where to. This group consists not only those Members, but also their Families and Friends as well as the Inhabitants of the various
Cities and Towns the various Members inhabit.

We are dealing not only with members of a different Nation, but also a different Culture, Language and cultural Norm.

So, of all the various Forms of Goverment, what sort of Goverment could such a Group form ??

Kingdom ? Dictatorship ? Council ? Democracy ? Oligarchy ?

Edit:
The impulse to this thread has been caused by this post here.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Considering the group size implied by your description, we're literally talking about tens to hundreds of millions of people, which isn't what you intended, I suppose.

If we consider something more in line with the various truck-kun stories involving groups, this is more likely going to be ten thousand, plus or minus an order of magnitude. For such volumes, a relatively direct representation form is entirely possible and preferable, if, as your hypothesis implies, there isn't a commonly agreed upon identity that generates systemic legitimacy. In the optimistic scenario where cooler heads prevail in the first few weeks, you can expect a structure to be made to represent the cultural/national, professional and religious communities. The level of centralization will depend a lot on the perceived hospitability of the arrival zone, whether it forces everyone to fight back-to-back to survive or if it allows small disagreements to grow into disputes and internal conflicts. Overall, the lack of systemic legitimacy and enforcement power through force will make things slow and in need of a very soft touch to nurture in the long term.

 

[Aetherius]

As for myself, i´m talking about a City of about almost 23k People. Yes, based on the City we would talk about multiple Million People.
IIRC, on SB.com there were Members from NYC. NYC had a Population of 8.4 Million (based on July 21).

So, based on what you are saying, it would take a lot of time and effort to form a functional and working Goverment.
And to form a working Goverment, you basically have to take all the various (or at least, most of them) in account.
You also have to take into account the various interests of those groups.
That is like herding cats, please excuse my comparison.

Ok, based on current and historical forms of Goverment, and taking the various Groups (based on Cultural, National, Religion, etc...) into account
what would be in Your Opinion possible ??

 

[Rufus Shinra]

As for myself, i´m talking about a City of about almost 23k People. Yes, based on the City we would talk about multiple Million People.
IIRC, on SB.com there were Members from NYC. NYC had a Population of 8.4 Million (based on July 21).

So, based on what you are saying, it would take a lot of time and effort to form a functional and working Goverment.
And to form a working Goverment, you basically have to take all the various (or at least, most of them) in account.
You also have to take into account the various interests of those groups.
That is like herding cats, please excuse my comparison.

Ok, based on current and historical forms of Goverment, and taking the various Groups (based on Cultural, National, Religion, etc...) into account
what would be in Your Opinion possible ??

See the previous answer, if the population is low enough. In reality, though, the governance question won't even come, because if the population materializes within close enough distance for a centralized government to even exist without modern communication infrastructure... the starvation will be horrifying. There'll be panic, inappropriate distribution of the small reserves available of food and fuel that could maybe be used to keep the freezers on for a bit longer, people will get the hell away as soon as they realize the impending doom, only to realize that whatever edible food in the surroundings has been gathered already by those who realized it slighly earlier. Then, of course, there'll be all those who'll die from eating the wrong thing, of dysentry, etc.

The proper answer to your question, unless you arrange for a self-sustaining structure to be ISOTed, is therefore: tribal.

 

[Aetherius]

See the previous answer, if the population is low enough. In reality, though, the governance question won't even come, because if the population materializes within close enough distance for a centralized government to even exist without modern communication infrastructure... the starvation will be horrifying. There'll be panic, inappropriate distribution of the small reserves available of food and fuel that could maybe be used to keep the freezers on for a bit longer, people will get the hell away as soon as they realize the impending doom, only to realize that whatever edible food in the surroundings has been gathered already by those who realized it slighly earlier. Then, of course, there'll be all those who'll die from eating the wrong thing, of dysentry, etc.

The proper answer to your question, unless you arrange for a self-sustaining structure to be ISOTed, is therefore: tribal.

So....
If population low = possible
If population big = tribalism
If population big and enough resouces = possible

Is that correct ?

 

[Rufus Shinra]

So....
If population low = possible
If population big = tribalism
If population big and enough resouces = possible

Is that correct ?

The history of political entities has been linked to three factors:
* Food production efficiency;
* Communication speed;
* Force projection capabilities.
An area isn't part of a State if said State cannot enforce its law in said area, which means being able to identify a violation of its will and the projection of overwhelming force to crush said violation, thus restoring order. Without communication, the State doesn't know jack shit and cannot know where to flex its internal muscle. Without muscle, it has no power to enforce its law. Without food excess, it cannot put people away from the fields to carry swords and beat those who break the law. The Roman Empire became very large because it had built superb roads that allowed communication and force projection in an era where noone around could have the same. During the Middle Ages, feudalism was the name of the game because fortifications quickly made it very hard to project power in the face of a political entity above a certain size. But once food production became big enough to afford larger armies, more specialized workers, etc., the consolidation of the State started anew.

 

[Aetherius]

Ok, you are talking right now about a historical Entity like the Roman Empire and Areas like the Middle Ages. Sure. Absolute believable.

But what about a more modern Situation, where Industry is available or even surpasses the current situation like here on earth ?

No, not a post scarcity situation. But a situation where a sort of basic supply of food, medicine and information can or will be guaranteed.

Assuming in my initial Post, a very large group gets really isoted, lets say in a Middle ages Setting, you can expect a lot of those people die in a very short time.
That´s for sure. But if the Group gets in a setting where resources and supply are available, i think things would look different.

edit:
So, it all depends on the group, it´s size and composition and what resources are available for this group.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Ok, you are talking right now about a historical Entity like the Roman Empire and Areas like the Middle Ages. Sure. Absolute believable.

But what about a more modern Situation, where Industry is available or even surpasses the current situation like here on earth ?

No, not a post scarcity situation. But a situation where a sort of basic supply of food, medicine and information can or will be guaranteed.

Assuming in my initial Post, a very large group gets really isoted, lets say in a Middle ages Setting, you can expect a lot of those people die in a very short time.
That´s for sure. But if the Group gets in a setting where resources and supply are available, i think things would look different.

edit:
So, it all depends on the group, it´s size and composition and what resources are available for this group.

It's even harder with a modern society, because as you might have noticed during the pandemics, the logistics supply line is extremely extended. The iron ore needs power to be melted, needs chemicals to be purified, needs specific other metals to be turned into modern steel alloys. The machines to be used need rare earths which are mined in specific places, the electronics factories cost the GDP of a small country, the seeds for mass food production are the result of years of advanced biotech, the coding for the machines is just as complex, and I could go on ad infinitum.

 

[Aetherius]

Thanks for the thought. I think i have to do more research.

 

[Scottty]

An area isn't part of a State if said State cannot enforce its law in said area, which means being able to identify a violation of its will and the projection of overwhelming force to crush said violation, thus restoring order. Without communication, the State doesn't know jack shit and cannot know where to flex its internal muscle.

Which raises a question or two not specified in the OP: the place they are all ISOT'd to does matter, because it matters whether it's possible for subgroups to form who simply go off and do their own thing.
Given how divided people on these forums seem to be - the likely result not be one government, but several different ones. A lot of which might not last too long, I think, not only due to being conquered from without, but due to the people trying to run it not really knowing what they are doing.

There's a long history of people who love the theory of Communism, for example, going off to form real-life communes, only to sooner or later give up on the whole idea.

 

[Aetherius]

Which raises a question or two not specified in the OP: the place they are all ISOT'd to does matter, because it matters whether it's possible for subgroups to form who simply go off and do their own thing.
Given how divided people on these forums seem to be - the likely result not be one government, but several different ones. A lot of which might not last too long, I think, not only due to being conquered from without, but due to the people trying to run it not really knowing what they are doing.

There's a long history of people who love the theory of Communism, for example, going off to form real-life communes, only to sooner or later give up on the whole idea.

It all depends on the location the group is (based on the original idea):

1. The entire group is now located on a fleet of Ships.
2. The entire group is now located on Asteroid Base/Bases (Multiple).
3. The entire group is now located on a Planet (about Earthsize)
4. The entire group is now located on a artifical Object (something something Shieldworld).

 

[Scottty]

It all depends on the location the group is (based on the original idea):

1. The entire group is now located on a fleet of Ships.

Ships as in spaceships, or water ships? Are we fleeing from the Cylons, or just cruising on an ocean?
Do we need to stop for supplies?

2. The entire group is now located on Asteroid Base/Bases (Multiple).

Larry Niven's Belters?

3. The entire group is now located on a Planet (about Earthsize)

No mindworms, right? Right?

4. The entire group is now located on a artifical Object (something something Shieldworld).

I don't know much about this one.

Seriously though... each of those have some quite serious implications as to what kind of government is practical.

 

[Aetherius]

Ships as in spaceships, or water ships? Are we fleeing from the Cylons, or just cruising on an ocean?
Do we need to stop for supplies?

As for the Original Thread, the Group is space based....
The Ships for this are heavy modified Colony Ships / Carriers.
They just need raw materials. The ships can produce their own food.

Larry Niven's Belters?

Something in that direction....

No mindworms, right? Right?

Just a bog standard earth like planet, no worms included

I don't know much about this one.

Shieldworld

 

[Rufus Shinra]

As for the Original Thread, the Group is space based....
The Ships for this are heavy modified Colony Ships / Carriers.
They just need raw materials. The ships can produce their own food.

Yeah, we're all dead. The **vast** majority of the people in question have no technical skill whatsoever, little if any organisational ones, virtually zero way of establishing legitimacy or a functional chain of command. It's Lord of the Flies unless the ships are so utterly automated and advanced they are the ones in control and we're just passengers with extra chores, in which case it ends as the ship in WALL-E.

 

[Aetherius]

If i stay by the original thread, then the ships are really advanced plus the group is supported / suplemented by advanced robots.

 

[Senmut]

After things settle down, the people from various countries would probably hive off. Folks from Western-style systems would not want to live under some theocratic oligarchy, and folks dedicated to whatever variety of Communism probably would not want to in a Western capitalist sort of polity.
In time, it would likely become Earth 2.0